do home built hammers make you cringe .

[basher]

Over the past couple of years I have seen more and more home built power hammers that scare the pants off of me .
hundred pounders held together with box section ,rsj that looks too small for the job .
It seems to me that a lot of the hammers I see are sailing very close to the wind .

is it just me ?

Is modern box section really good enough to do the job of a cast frame weighing tonnes ?

Am I too used to industrial hammers with overbuild built in ?

Dont get me wrong I love seeing them , I thinkm they are very inovative and will probably have a go at making one some time soon .....but.....

I cant help thinking that a lot of them could do with quite a bit of extra steel considering the job they are doing.......

[Bentiron1946]

I really haven't been around all that many homebuilt but the one's I have been personally around seem **** for stout. One of the last was made from "I" beam material that had 3/4" cross section and that seemed more than enough for the 75 pound hammer. The anvil was made from a section of 12" diameter shaft from I don't know what but it too look big enough to handle the job. The other hammer was a 50 pound hammer made from structural 10" box tube, around 3/8" wall for the main upright instead of an "I" beam. These were both Kenyon style hammers. The last hammer was made of 1" steel plate bent to a sort of "C" shape with a flat bottom and then more 1" sheet welded inside of that. It looked some what like a Little Giant, had a big old round billet of steel for the anvil and used Kenyon style controls. None of these looked under built compared to any of the commercial ones of similar weight. They were steel framed, not cast iron as many of the late Nineteenth or early Twentieth Century power hammers were, now if you're talking about some of the "Rusty" type hammers, from the pictures I've seen they may be a little on the light side and somewhat on the shoddy side of construction. I have been know to overbuild my tools though so my opinion maybe somewhat biased. :blink:

[ptree]

I built a Rusty type hammer and used square tube. My vert. tube for the frame is 8' square by 3/8" wall. I filled the frame with steel shot once in place. Don't forget that steel has much better properties than cast iron when in tensile loading. Mine is stout, solid and does not bounce around. My industrial experience is with Erie Forge drop hammers running from 1500# drop weight to 25,000#. The Eries were about the pinicle of the American steam hammers and they broke too!
Don't forget that industrial hammers are designed for multi-shift, 5 day a week operation where most homebuilts are hobby hammers. I have had mine since 2002, and I would guess it now has the equivelent of about 3 months of industrial service.

[arftist]

I have repaired many heavy cast iron frames that snapped when overstressed. With modern structural tube steel, the tube will bend, and only if stressed past it's yeild point, deform. But it still will not snap, like cast iron readily will. Yes, there are some self designed hammers that seem to have some weak spots, but the use of tube steel is not one of them.

[monstermetal]

Yeah I would agree... A steel tube vs the same amount of steel in solid form is 100's of times more rigid and strong... I have a book someplace that illustrates the example with a big cross section chunk of solid sq steel vs an i beam with the same weight per foot and what they will support... in the example its like 700 times more can be supported with the I beam....

[Dave Budd]

a weakness that has been mentioned is the fool that constructs the hammer. In my case at least, I'm not a great welder so presumably that's a major weak spot in the construction of a welded frame?

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Well, It's the old "mighty oak vs the willow" in a storm. Both can stand a good blow. You can build massive or flexible, but you can't build flexible with cast iron. But the shear weight of a cast iron frame has advantages of it's own.

So, which would you rather drive on: a cast iron bridge or a steel one?

[Dillon Sculpture]

Seems there is not a hole lot cast iron bridges out there, "Ironbridge" being the most successful, quite beautiful though.

[HWHII]

a weakness that has been mentioned is the fool that constructs the hammer. In my case at least, I'm not a great welder so presumably that's a major weak spot in the construction of a welded frame?

I have to agree with you here. I have seen a fair amount of backyard hammers and most of their problems are the result of poor welding choices. If one thinks about it. There is a reason why they don't build high rise buildings with 110 MIG welders. <_<

[dablacksmith]

well in my opinion the homemade hammers dont bother me at all... if you do research into hammers in history there were a lot of homemade hammers around 1900 ... and they didnt have a arc welder to stick um together! most homemade hammers are not in the "industrial" range most are under 100 lbs ram weight ...and if they fail catastrofically they usually only get the guy who made it if they get anyone at all ... imo thats a part of life ! i wouldnt worry too much about the homemade hammers after all a few of the hammers that a factory made started out as homemade hammers! in fact there was a company in the 1900s that sold kits to build your own ! have fun!

[will52100]

The only thing I would add is that I purchased a tire hammer, never could get my schedule worked out to go on a build. It's a nicely made and well ballanced machine with some of the crapiest welding I've ever seen. Time after time I had to re-weld parts that came apart from near zero penitration of the weld. After the last time I went over it and took it apart and fixed all the bad welds. After that I haven't had a problem. The only design flaw I see is that the base was only 1/2" thick. A pit thin for a 50lb. hammer. I welded it to a 1" thick plate that was a little larger and bolted it down to a 10" thick concrete slab and it works like a champ. The bigest issue was the welding, someone used a mig, and if you don't know what your doing it'll look good and have little to no penitration.

[beslagsmed]

December I got my hammer finished and enjoy it. I too worried about the structure being about to withstand. I believe I got a good hammer. I'm not a certified welder, but I feel I got good weld, good penitration. I have had other ask if I would build one for them. My reply is I'm not a certified welder and won't take the responsibility. I believe if one does a good job in selecting materials, putting it together, you will get good service.

[will52100]

You don't have to be a certified welder to do good welding. You need to know what your doing, but you don't have to be able to pass an X-ray test. As long as you get decent penitration with a good rod, or wire, and you don't overheat the weld or suronding metal and crystalize it or undercut it too badly you shouldn't have a problem. My hammer held together for years with some places on the toggle arms only having 1/16" by maybe 1/2" weld penitration. The reason I got so disgusted with the welds is I used to be a welder. The little giant toggle system realy is an elegant design. The only reason I had problems is that I tend to run it flat out reducing thick stock at lower temps than a lot of smiths do and that makes for just a little more vibration and shock. If the welder had done just a little better job, I'd probably never have had a problem. They still would have been extreamly weak, but because of the design would have held.

And while wire welders are nice, nothing teaches like stick rods, you learn to lay down decent beads with a 40 year old box and damp rods and you can weld with anything!

Would love to see pics of your hammer.

[backyard smith]

The only thing that make me cringe about power hammers is the price! I built my 30lb hammer for the cost of a 1 1/2hp motor and the scrap steel. Figure welding rods and power to melt them the steel and motor...I have 225 dollars in a hammer that I know every inch of it and can fix anything that may go wrong. Been running good with steady use for 2 years now. I do however see the photos of some hammers that look dangerous at best. Building a hammer is not for a novice mechanic, and if a novice wants to build one please reach out for some help! TC

[poleframer]

I have to agree with you here. I have seen a fair amount of backyard hammers and most of their problems are the result of poor welding choices. If one thinks about it. There is a reason why they don't build high rise buildings with 110 MIG welders.

Thats the truth! I dont even have a durn MIG. Just my '89 Miller AEAD legend gen/welder, and a couple boxes of 7018 that I feel secure with.

[Geoff]

I have built two hammers. One a rusty and the other a treadle hammer. Due to life I only have the treadle hammer at the moment. Stick welder and care, and both are very solid. Make your design as simple as possible and the welds as easy as possible.

I am not a certified welder. Taught myself mostly with some tips and hints from mates. I only have an ivnerter stick welder and used that and slightly damps rods. Care and going over welds will give you more than enough strength. Make sure you don't leave slag rather grind off the weld and redo it. IMHO If it looks really bad it most likely is a bad weld, rather redo it.

I think many homebuilt hammers are made from good quality steel that is not brittle like cast and so have a much higher safety factor than many people give them credit for.

Just for interest has anyone here had a failure of a home built hammer that completely ruined the hammer and caused serious injury. If so please give the details so that we can learn.

[nonjic]

In industry fabricated hammer frames, no matter how solidly built, have a much shorter service life than a comparible weight cast iron frame. Somthing to do with the way the different materials transmit vibration.

[will52100]

"In industry fabricated hammer frames, no matter how solidly built, have a much shorter service life than a comparible weight cast iron frame. Somthing to do with the way the different materials transmit vibration."

Very posible, good cast iron is very ductile, but I have seen several power hammers with cast iron and cracked and broken frames. Of course there 60+ years old as well and have pounded out no telling how much hot steel. Ductile cast iron tends to dampen vibration by it's nature, where as steel is stiffer and transmits more vibration. Anouther issue with a fabbed hammer is that of almost everyone I've seen there are a lot of butt welds and little or no gusseting, where as most cast hammers I've seen flair out to the base and spread the load/vibration out evenly.

Even so, my hammer should last my lifetime, and even though I use it hard, as a knifemaker I'm not doing production forging on it. If I was doing production forging I'd have one of the self contained air hammers. As much as I like to forge, I spend a couple hours on the hammer and a week or more on finish work.

Also remember that the old mechanicle hammers were made from cast iron because it was cheap and they had mastered casting, not because it was superior to welded steel. At the time hammers were in demand they were casting virtualy anything and everything from cast iron.