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I finally got a "H" frame press


Fe-Wood

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I went an auction last week and picked up, what I think is a nice press. It has a 5" ram with 5hp motor. Thats it for the specs so far. I didn't have a chance to give it a good once over after I bought it. It also has a hand crank pump? Given the plumbing, It looks like it has a pressure bypass valve system with an extra pressure tank. Who ever built it did a excellent job!

My main question is about variable frequency drives. The motor is 3 phase and I have single phase. One friend suggested I use a rotary phase converter. I have been looking at VFD's and they seems to come pre-configured to run up to 3hp. After that you need to run a bigger one and de-rate it. Any one have any experience doing this? I'm Not interested so much on how to do it, more- how does it function. I have my 2hp 3 phase spinning lathe running on VFD and it runs fine. I like the power efficiency of the VFD's over rotary. Seems like the VFD's on the market give stable and equal power to all 3 legs. What do you guys think?

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I went an auction last week and picked up, what I think is a nice press. It has a 5" ram with 5hp motor. Thats it for the specs so far. I didn't have a chance to give it a good once over after I bought it. It also has a hand crank pump? Given the plumbing, It looks like it has a pressure bypass valve system with an extra pressure tank. Who ever built it did a excellent job!

My main question is about variable frequency drives. The motor is 3 phase and I have single phase. One friend suggested I use a rotary phase converter. I have been looking at VFD's and they seems to come pre-configured to run up to 3hp. After that you need to run a bigger one and de-rate it. Any one have any experience doing this? I'm Not interested so much on how to do it, more- how does it function. I have my 2hp 3 phase spinning lathe running on VFD and it runs fine. I like the power efficiency of the VFD's over rotary. Seems like the VFD's on the market give stable and equal power to all 3 legs. What do you guys think?



A VFD on a hydraulic system is a very cool thing.... the displacement of the pump has to do with RPM so by slowing down the motor you can slow down the system.... I think with a little searching look at automation direct you can find a single phase in 5HP VFD pretty reasonable...
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Monster-
Do you have one in mind? I have looked at factorymation and automation direst and have not found anything yet in single phase input with 3 phase output in the 5hp range. I sent the tech at factorymation an email... I need to get the full load amps from the motor for proper sizing of a bigger starter to de-rate it properly is what they said....

I take it you like having the ability to have more control over the pump?

I like the way my lathe has a "soft start" feature with the VFD.

Clinton-
your just going to have to come up to see it :D

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I use a couple of TECO VFDs a 1hp and a 2hp from Factorymation, reasonably priced and work great. But the largest TECO 1ph in 3ph out I've seen is 3 Hp. I did find this though.
http://www.driveswarehouse.com/Drives/AC+Drives/Phase+Converter+VFD/PC1-50.html

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the nice thing about the vfd is that it starts the motor slowly, so there is not the huge startup current that motors usually have, so you just have to match the FLA or RLA current on the name plate, and the vfds also are listed in horsepower. The programming has a learning curve but for the most part it is a plug and play thing. good luck.

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Depends on how much you want to spend. A good rotary converter will give you stable 3 phase output. The one I have was designed for CNC machinery with up to a 15hp motor, and will run a combined 60hp. With a rotary you wouldn't need to spend a load for each new piece of equipment, and I see them on CL fairly often. You can also build your own. Capacitors are easy to source.

Another 3ph motor can be used that you wire through. With this you would only get 2/3 of the rated output, but extra motors can sometimes be found for free. I have a stack of them back in CA that we being scrapped because they were surplus to the company's needs.

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Just throwing it out there, but another cure would be to swap out the motor for a 220 single phase motor of the same horsepower/rpm.
My press runs on a 10 hp 1725 rpm 220 single phase mtor, drawing 42 amps. Very uncommon motor indeed, but 5hp 220 single phase are not that uncommon

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  • 3 weeks later...

Press update-
A friend has been helping me sort out the press motor and wiring system. It complicated!!!! Turns out the motor was 3 phase and 480 volts :o
Our first thought was to just use a phase converter but it seems the motor starter and heaters are WAY to small for the new amps required when we rewired the motor for 220 volts. :huh: Smoking :blink:
So, Now were looking at replacing the motor and the mag switch. First quote for a comparable motor and starter was more than double what I paid for the press in the first place :( From what my friend says the replacement motor needs to be a 5HP,1725RPM,1PH,60HZ,184TC,3646LC,TEFC Baldor motor.
I've been thinking, If I have to replace the motor ect. for such high dollars I begin to have a ton of options for flow and HP. I'd post some pictures but I don't have any yet.
What I do know is- it has 3/8" solid pipe for the main feeds and 1/2" flex (rubber) at the cylinder. The cylinder is 5" and the ram is 1.5" There are all kinds of equalizers and pressure controls (looks like it has an over pressure cut out wired into it) on this thing so I don't know if I will run into trouble if I increase the flow potential.

Ideas? Thoughts? Thanks!

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Heaters are like fuses, and can be adjusted for draw.

Doesn't have to be a Baldor motor. Yes they are good, and made in USA last I checked, but there are tons of used motors out there for inexpensive to free. Check scrap yards for equipment that has been scrapped. I was given a 7.5 hp motor for free off of a fore aft car hoist hydraulic pump. Loaned it to a friend so he could use it for running a Monarch EE, but it somehow disappeared during his move to NV :(

Motors,and controls are all available used. I just picked up a truck bed full of stuff that work was tossing. Check Craigslist, and the local penny saver type papers. What was the one called up your way? The Nifty Nickel?

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I can run what ever I want!!!! I did a test today on what hertz I'm currently running- 59.09.... Rpm up= 60 hertz, Rpm down=50 hertz :o:blink::unsure: I'm not sure what volt I would get at 50 hertz though... :unsure: I think I've come up with a good new motor :D

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Ok, So if I wanted to buy a 50 hz 3 ph induction forge rated at 380 v, (as found on Ebay) what is needed to convert it to 60 hz 240v 3 ph? I have that power coming in the shop.
thanks, John

I think that would be difficult. My immediate thought is a transformer to change voltage but then your cycles are still off. Run a generator? Maybe some kind of fancy inverter (motor control type) is available now. When we used to make machinery going to UK we had to rent a special generator that would do the 380v 50 cycles to run the machines for testing.
Rob
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  • 1 month later...

Update-
After waiting 3 weeks for a new motor- it is still back ordered :(
So I went ahead and ordered a VFD from Factorymotion. While I was scoping out this new change in direction- It accured to me- I wonder how long one can go between oil and filter changes. I figure I will do it now but in the future.... 100 hours? 200 hours???

What do you guys do?

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  • 3 months later...

Come to Beijing and just plug it in John....
That Is all we do here..... Mike Wolfe




Ok, So if I wanted to buy a 50 hz 3 ph induction forge rated at 380 v, (as found on Ebay) what is needed to convert it to 60 hz 240v 3 ph? I have that power coming in the shop.
thanks, John
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