Shop - ing

[Marksnagel]

Well winter is coming and the weather will soon turn cooler. The romance of running the forge under the spreading oak tree will soon come to a freezing halt. I moved under the tree to be sheltered from the sun and now I need to hide from the elements. I reckon I'm hard to please.

I'm looking for ideas on a small shop, @ 12x12. I have my own ideas but would like some others.

I'm using a coal forge and need room for a work table and anvil and some breathing room. Doesn't have to be pretty, just functional. ie out of the wind/rain/sun

Pictures would be great.

[Ferrous Beuler]

Mark, Do you have a fireplace with a proper brick chimney in your living room?

Oh sorry, it just dawned on me that I should have asked if you're married first, never mind.

[Marksnagel]

Dan,
Sure do have a wood burning fireplace.
And if I want to stay married I had better not introduce coal into it. You're not too far from my younger brother. He's in Homer. With your winters you may want to set up shop in the livingroom.

The anvil in the middle of the den might be a bit much.

The winters here in north east NC don't get too severe but they can get nasty for a bit. I have a 24 x 12 shed but I doubt my landlord would appreciate me setting up shop in the "nice" shed.

However on a good note, he will let me and help me build whatever I want for a blacksmith shed. Great landlord. All I'm really looking for is a three sided shelter with a roof that I can close off the front in the cold and open the sides in the summer. I will also vent the fire through a Hofi hood of sorts most probably. There are plenty of materials around with which to build.



Just fishin for some ideas. All ideas welcome. (except the livingroom fireplace)

Mark

[Pat Roy]

Good sketch. Just make the ceiling high enough to allow a good hammer swing and movement of your steel. Do a floor plan showing where everything will go to make sure you have the working room you need. My first shop became a little crowded as I accumulated tools and stuff. The second one was twice the size and will someday be too small, but not yet.

[Marksnagel]

Good point Roy. Build the shed around the shop. I think 12 x 12 should do it especially since one side will be open. I can expand as needed.

The Ceiling will be plenty tall. I'm 6'2" so there will be plenty of swing room taken in account.

With all the discussions lately about how do you orientate the horn on the anvil in your shop I figure there should be plenty of shop advise floating around on how to set up a shop. Since mine is outside space is not a problem. With winter coming on actually space is a problem. All advice is welcome.

Thanks for replying.
Mark<><

[Francis Trez Cole]

Well it looks good you will have to make a lot of hardware to make. My 2 cents the side you have open make it a set of doors so you can open it all up or lock it up.

[Don A]

If you live anywhere near your electric utility, used poles from their pole pile can make for a quick and sturdy frame for a shelter.

The average distribution pole is 40 - 45'. Base gets hit by a car, crews saw part of top off for repair... you can still end up with a good 20 footer.

We give ours away to get rid of them. Check your local utility and see what they tell you.

You could do a 12x12 with 4 poles. The space I'm using is 10x12. It is actually stall #1 of a 3 stall shed I built from said poles. That's 8 three to four foot deep holes dug by hand... not easy, but it was free.

Don

[FieryFurnace]

I would second the above post on putting doors or something to close the oening. My shop is still open a bit and the wind plays with my draught some. If you are using a hand crank blower, make sure you set your forge away from the wall some so the blower won't be in the way....that is something I didn't think about with mine.
I love the opening sides idea. That is my dream shop.....though in my dreams my dream shop is a bit bigger than 12'x12'. lol
Like what has already been mentioned, draw it all out overhead style to get a general floor plan. You can move a 200 pound forge/hood when it's on paper but it's a little harder when the hole is cut in the wall and the forge is installed. (trust me......change of plans with me and I need to move my forge over. LOL)

[dablacksmith]

ime in arizona and not haveing the same problems but.. i like my shop ! its 15x15 but one of the best features is the side that doubles as a shade and allows ventalation ! if i was in a colder clime i would put insulation in but keep the folding side!

[Fosterob]

The only thing I can add is make the ceiling as high as you can. In addition to hammer swing room if you need to flip over a long part it is a pain to carry it to somewhere where you can. The county code here is 12 feet high on sheds smaller than 120 sq ft.
Rob

[ThomasPowers]

Asking us to help design your shop without telling us what you will be doing in it is a bit weird---a knifesmith's shop can be set up quite differently than a gate maker's shop. The main thing is to work out your "work triangle" Forge:Anvil:Post Vise The rest of the space is mainly tool storage and perhaps stock storage. (for a bladesmith the work triangle can be VERY compact, for a gate maker you will need room for swinging longer stock around.)

BTAIM the first thing I latched onto is "landlord": Can you build your shop on skids so it can be moved? It's nearly a given that as soon as you get yourself set up just right you will have to move!

On my shop extension I went to the local Electrical COOP and got 2 40' utility poles for free (and in great shape they were removed after only 10 years of service to widen a train track!) We cut them in half for moving and then sunk them 5+ feet in the earth for a "pole barn" set up where the poles and a perimeter 2x6 of pressure treated lumber around the bottom is the *only* wood in the structure. Trimmed them in place for a 10' side wall. Got a lot of hail damaged pro-panel for the walls and roof for free and only *bought* two used metal trusses, two pieces of fiberglass for "skylights" and the purlins and SDST screws to put it together. Currently it's close to US$1 per square foot; but I just bought 2 used roll up doors for the front and that adds another quarter per sq foot.

I would look into rolling barn doors to allow you to open up in the summer and definitely a serious overhang/porch to have open air yet "dry" space.

Out here fire danger is a big issue; single digit humidities are common and so having almost no wood in the construction is one less worry! (I didn't plan to have the perimeter boards originally but I sent my concrete floor money to help out one of my kids and so had to go with a dirt floor and wanted it raised and level.)

How I usually design stuff is "What can I get Free or Cheap and what can I build with it?"

[Marksnagel]

Good advice from all.

Thomas,
I am a hobby blacksmith and I do intend to grow as I learn. I didn't give any hint to what the shops main purpose was because I haven't figured out what my potential will be yet. By being ambiguous maybe I'll get a broader mix of ideas.

My landlord really is great. Anything I want to do around the home, they are supportive of. Shop on skids is a great idea but there is really little chance of us moving and if we did, all the materials for the shop would be the farms anyway. The house we are renting is in the middle of their farm, it was built in the mid 1700's (British were in charge) and needs fine tuning quite often. I do much of the minor repairs and they pay me for my time. We have been here for 14 years and have been pretty much adopted. Yet one never knows.

I will probably have a good overhang in the front to keep rain from coming in the doors. I like the idea of the sliding/rolling barn doors.

Francis,
I hadn't really put much thought into locking the shop as I don't have a whole lot of tools yet. I should plan for the future and be able to secure the shop.

Dablacksmith,
Your shop is what I had in mind. Thanks.

David,
You are right. Don't need a draft blowing around the shop. Thomas's door idea should take care of that.

Don,
Plenty of poles on the farm.

I will probably take a mix of ideas that are offered, use some, throw out some and then two years down the line wish I hadn't thrown them out. If I finish it this fall and it's not too embarassing looking, I'll post some pictures.

Thanks all,
Mark<><

[thingmaker3]

Got a lot of hail damaged propane for the walls and roof for free

Can you expound a bit on this, Mr P? You've piqued my curiosity. Were these big tanks you cut open & unrolled?

[rustyshackleford]

Marksnagel:
First, I grew up in Little Washington a a lad, cool to hear of someone from that area into smithing

to offer input: a friend of mine came into some money and built a small shop with the same goals, keep the wet (in our case, snow as much as rain here in the App Mtns). Though it would be sturdier if set in the ground like his, you cane get 4x4s as uprights, and make a shed 1.5 plywood sheets wide to achieve your 12x12 goal. Roof material is at your discretion, but a single pitched shed roof would be easy math to figure out.

7 or 8 4x4s 8ft long set as studs (4 corners, and one at the relative midpoint) to screw the plywood directly into was his method, and he put doors that would open the entire front like a cabinet. Hope it's clear, if you're interested I can head over to his place this weekend and take some pics

[pkrankow]

A lot of good ideas here. Something else to add is to go to your local big box, they have "canned" construction plans for about $20 for a complete set. Modifying openings is no challenge. Having the front wall as a 16 ft garage door is also going to allow for security, and make the structure more universally useful for the next person.

Phil

[Marksnagel]

Joseph,
I would someday like to live in the mouintains, I miss them. Youngest is in her last year at Appstate. I'll probably stay here and just visit the mountains though. I think I have a pretty good idea what you are describing. I have a lot of options available. Ideas from my mind and everybody elses will probably culminate into what resembles a shop. It will be like the old Johnny Cash song about the caddilac he got from work one piece at a time over a period of years.

Phil,
The front will be open across the whole thing. I want a big opening. The barn doors that Thomas mentioned will be good there. It is rare that anything that gets built around here, shed like, has a set of plans.

A plan view will follow shortly and be added as a reply. First I need to measure my equipment and see what room I will need. Feel free to critique, commend or criticize the layout as I have no local Master Blacksmith to learn from.

Thanks,
Mark<><

[Bad Creek Blacksmith]

I would have my windows drop down from the top and put legs on the corners fasten with hinges so they drop when window was up. That way you have built in or outside tables, you wouldn't be able to beat any thing real hard but to lay things on it would be okay. I like the idea of a porch, if I had the room and cash I would go with a pre-fab log cabin.

[ThomasPowers]

My fingers provide free typo's as a "boon". Propane should have been pro-panel. (I was recently given a 14' long propane tank to cut up for the dished ends...)

[Marksnagel]

I would have my windows drop down from the top and put legs on the corners fasten with hinges so they drop when window was up. That way you have built in or outside tables, you wouldn't be able to beat any thing real hard but to lay things on it would be okay. I like the idea of a porch, if I had the room and cash I would go with a pre-fab log cabin.

How about if the windows were two piece? A top that goes up and the bottom down to make the table. I figure since I'm in the planning stage all things are possible.

[Ramsberg]

Hey Mark,

In Charles McRavens book "Country Blacksmithing" he illustrates a shop that he made with a timber frame "gazebo" with three foot tall stone walls all around having the masonary forge set into them. That is one really neat open sided shop.

Have you considered making the "windows" detachable. Say with a hook and eye system at the top and a double eye with rod system at the bottom? Something like some luber or plywood with windows set into them that could be removed from the wall(from the inside). That way in the summer you could just remove them, lean them up against something and have true open walls.

Caleb Ramsby

[Marksnagel]

Caleb,
Thanks for the info on the book. I'll see if I can find it. The detachable windows sound good but then I would need to have an overhang on the sides above the windows so that in the summer I can still work in the rain. No real problem. I could easily keep the detachable window up on the windward side.

With all the info that I am getting I should be able to put together a very functional shed for my shop.

Today was a good example of why I need a blacksmith shop. Not cold but heavy wind and some rain. Wx dictates when I work. Today, I didn't.

Thanks all,
Mark<><

[clinton]

I built my shop using surplus material, six inch metal studs for the posts and headers, headers span 24 feet, 2 1/2 inch metal studs for the rafters, salvaged metal for the roof I found a building that was going to be torn down and got permission to remove the roof panels over the weekend before the demo crew went to work

Find a local drywall contractor and ask them if they have any extra material that you could purchase ( at a discount the suppliers do not like to take returns) most contractors in our area have piles of this stuff and it gets to be a hassle for them to store it

[Marksnagel]

Clinton,

Thanks for the pictures! I spoke with my landlord today and he said to go for it. He has all the materials I need and will undoubtedly help me build it. With all the input I've reveived I should get a pretty good working blacksmith shop.

Pictures will follow as it progresses.

Thanks again,
Mark<><

[clinton]

Ya sounds good- posts, headers, rafters, roof. A few diagonal braces are good, you also should think about snow load if that may be an issue- I would never build a roof like this to handle any snow load, I can walk on there as long as I stay on a header or rafter and I am pushing 200 lbs now
glad that you have a landlord that approves, I had one in Monterey that told me to get rid of all my junk or get out so I got out, I will never be able to rent again way too much stuff