forgemaster Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Hi Guys I realise that this may be out of left field for some of you guys. I was interested in finding out if anyone has used, played around with or purchased any forging simulation software. What was it, how did you feel it related to the real world, what sort of cost, was it adaptable to different sorts of situations, did you need to be a rocket scientist to drive it. I have been thinking of looking into this, as I can see an application for this sort of thing at work, but from what I have found so far, most programs are more focused on closed die operations (ie drop forging, or up setters). I'd appreciate any feed back, thanks guys. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I think what you want is one of those "finite element mesh" programs. Thomas Powers knows a "1" from a "0" for his day job, so maybe he'll chime in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I have not looked into it but I am guessing it is quite expensive. I know someone who has casting simulation software and I know it was very expensive. He has recouped some of the expense by running simulations for other shops and charging to do so. Maybe you could either do the same or fine someone who has the software and pay them to run some simulations for you, Especially if they are a closed die shop and you are not competing with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I ran across the following durnig a completely unralated search: http://www.deform.com/ Looks like $800 for the "economy" version & $2K or $2.5K for the bells & whistles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I ran across the following durnig a completely unralated search: http://www.deform.com/ Looks like $800 for the "economy" version & $2K or $2.5K for the bells & whistles. That's not too bad. The casting software I was talking about is in the $20-25K range. Did you request prices or did you find them on the website? I couldn't find any. The F3 seems to be the version you would need for open die forging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I was interested in finding out if anyone has used, played around with or purchased any forging simulation software. For many people starting out: For less than $20 (NOT 2k$) you can build a 55 Forge and it will get to forging temperatures with scrap wood such as pallets. For those on a budget you can dig a hole in the ground and with a piece of pipe have a working forge. This will give you REAL TIME / REAL WORLD experience that no soft wear program can provide. From there you can purchase a block of modeling clay for less than $5 (for the BIG BLOCK) and practice different techniques in the comfort of your living room while watching TV. For industrial applications: Contact the soft wear company and ask for a trial version or a trial period to apply their soft wear to your specific application to see if the soft wear matches the results your are already producing. From there you can do a couple of test runs of their soft wear against the new process to see what they say should happen. Take it to the forge and test it. I would think they would be happy to have you evaluate the product for your application, in exchange for feedback and suggestions on how to improve their product.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddDuck Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 I can just see us all rushing to our favorite video game store to pick up up our new "Blacksmith Master" game for our Wii... Might be nice for those of us with naturally air conditioned shops in the middle of February. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larzz Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 For those of us that are not so far along..."Blacksmith's Apprentice" works on any Atari. The "Master" puts it on the anvil and you hit where the "X" is. The more correct hits the more points. Think astroids on steroid.. :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I was interested in finding out if anyone has used, played around with or purchased any forging simulation software. Before this gets hijacked, there are some high end soft wears in industry. The ones I have viewed in photos are for bending pipe, tubing, etc, complete with colored stress references. Again, contact the developer and talk with them, as you know your needs and they know their product. Work together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evfreek Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 For many people starting out: For less than $20 (NOT 2k$) you can build a 55 Forge and it will get to forging temperatures with scrap wood such as pallets. For those on a budget you can dig a hole in the ground and with a piece of pipe have a working forge. This will give you REAL TIME / REAL WORLD experience that no soft wear program can provide. From there you can purchase a block of modeling clay for less than $5 (for the BIG BLOCK) and practice different techniques in the comfort of your living room while watching TV. ... I am looking for a way to find the instantaneous maximum pressure on the anvil as a function of hammer impact and material thickness. This is easy to compute for infinite and zero thicknesses, but I was wondering about the middle range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I'd suggest getting Patrick to chime in as he works as a Metallurgist for a large open die forging company and so if it's being used; it's probably being used where he works! I forge to get away from the pesky ones and zeros and the devil spawned coders and end users (to mangle a Dilbert quote). Noting nicer than to HIT something repeatedly after a frustrating day at the keyboard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 That's not too bad. The casting software I was talking about is in the $20-25K range. Did you request prices or did you find them on the website? I couldn't find any. The F3 seems to be the version you would need for open die forging. There was a .pdf flyer listing prices. I can try to find it again if you like. I am looking for a way to find the instantaneous maximum pressure on the anvil as a function of hammer impact and material thickness. This is easy to compute for infinite and zero thicknesses, but I was wondering about the middle range. Woa! Calculus!! I'm outa here!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share Posted October 7, 2010 Thanks for the input guys, I have seen versions advertised in Forging magazine, etc and on the net in general. One of our customers who used to have the largest open die forging press in the southern Hemisphere (6100 tons), and who we have done some R and D work for has a pretty good program but it is in the realms of $30K and upwards. I was thinking of going for a test drive on some versions, but thought someone may have been able to save me the time and trouble of sifting through all the duds. Clay and plastercine would not work for us, as we would need to get a piece of clay 330mm in dia (our starting stock) or else scale it down,(not sure if that would work either) Thanks guys Cheers Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larzz Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 You might try contacting some of the larger forging shops and see if they could help you. Try to get to their engineering department for the best feed back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 So did you ever get any simulation software Forgemaster? Has anyone else had any experience with simulation software? I have a job I am staring Monday for 100pc. I have to start with a 1/4" thick laser cut piece of 4140. I have to forge one end and then joggle and bevel the profile on the other end. For these ones I am just going to grind the bevel. The job may turn into thousands at a time. I am not sure I can be competitive for the thousands at a time but I am thinking if I made a die I could bevel the profile fairly quickly. However this would change the profile of the laser cut part. I would need to figure out the preform laser cut profile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Can the laser make a bevel cut? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 Hey John I did get a version of a forging package software, however it requires a fair bit of sitting down and fiddling with to get all to work, and we did'nt get any instructions with it nor a manual, (give you an idea of how we got it) the application we wanted to use it for was we were making large washers, and we wanted to know how far we needed to upset the starting blank before we punched the hole, so as we could then ring it to a size and squash it again down to our finishing thickness (2.5") and then only have to give the washer a light rering and a light flatten to finish at our forged sizes, rather than ring flatten ring flatten ring flatten etc. By the time I had sat down and figured how to get the program to run, drawn punches, set up press parameters, etc it turned out quicker to get the info by actually doing the forgings and jotting down our measurements as we went and just tweek the sizes in 12" to the foot scale. Stuffed up 2 rings but we managed to reuse them in another job. So yes we did get something, no I did'nt pay for it, yes it may have worked for the need I had but I needed the tech backup (which I did'nt have, you get what you pay for) to get me past the hurdles that we were getting (eg when you punched the slug out of the hole you were punching, the sim would stop as it would class that as a material rupture, and we had to figure out how to tell the sim that that was OK and it was what we wanted to happen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Couldn't you just forge a couple one-offs of any old 1/4" 4140 and measure them before & after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions. I am not sure if the laser cutting could set up to cut a taper but it definitely could not cut this. I am talking about beveling about 3/4 wide by about 1/8 thick. Maybe trial and error is the way to go I will have to get multiple laser cut sample profiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Thanks for the suggestions. I am not sure if the laser cutting could set up to cut a taper but it definitely could not cut this. I am talking about beveling about 3/4 wide by about 1/8 thick. Maybe trial and error is the way to go I will have to get multiple laser cut sample profiles. May be antiquated, but we used to cut bevels with oxy/acetelyne. Or at those sizes, what about a simple jig and mill through with a standard cutter? Difficult to help without seeing a drawing, but just a couple of thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 I cannot post drawings right now for customer confidentiality reasons, but it is a 6.5" wide piece at the end of a narrow strip of steel. I did think about having the bevels cnc cut with a custom cutter. Milling the bevels might be the way to go using a jig, rotary table and multiple setups for the first 100. But if it goes to thousands of parts per order I need to go to dedicated dies. I am pretty sure the Massey would do the bevels in one or two blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 Appreciate the client confidentiality bit, at least you have options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forgemaster Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Hey john Keep us informed, here to help if you need it. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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