drifting to square?

[downsfish]

I'm building an anvil out of a 5 1/2" square billet patterned after Mr. Hofi's. I've drilled a 1 1/4" hole for my hardie and was wondering if you think I could hand drift it to a square once I put a small hole, say 1/4", in each corner? I was thinking of some kind of fluted four point drifts to move the material and end up with a slightly smaller (maybe 1") square. I should preface this by saying that I don't have much experience with drifting thick material, and 5 1/2" seems more than a little problematic. I don't know enough to know that this may be a foolish idea, which hasn't stopped me in the past, it just makes the learning curve more like a circle. I'd like to use a broach but I don't have that kind of dough, and there's got to be a way faster than filing. Here's some pics, tell me what you think even if it'll hurt my last feeling.

[Wesley Chambers]

what about something like this?

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Well, here's my take: Forget what it should be like and think about why. Why did they make square hardy holes in the first place? I suppose it was to keep tools from rotating AND it was fairly easy to do when they were forging or casting an anvil. If I was in your shoes I'd make my hardy tools with a round shank, drop them in the hole and weld on a pin sticking down another hole. You don't have a "traditional" anvil, you don't need traditional tools. You might want to make a 1/2" hole close to your hardy hole just for the purpose. THAT will accomplish the same thing.

OR: Go to a rental store or pneumatic repair and ask for an old "rivet buster" bushing. This has a .925 square hole. You could press it in or weld it in.

[John B]

Poliangular drills are good for square holes, but expensive and difficult to source, particularly for the sze required.

as for the request and comment
I've drilled a 1 1/4" hole for my hardie and was wondering if you think I could hand drift it to a square once I put a small hole, say 1/4", in each corner? I was thinking of some kind of fluted four point drifts to move the material and end up with a slightly smaller (maybe 1") square.

Seems I'm confused here, you drift larger, yet this appears smaller.?

My suggestion would be to relieve the bottom four or so inches of the proposed hardie hole by drilling it say one and a half inches diameter from the underside,

Then you could chisel and file out the square to suit your hardies, (or laser/waterjet/plasma/oxy/jig saw or whatever you have available)

You can drill small holes and use flat, cross cut and diamond point chisels to remove the bulk of the material (You may find this is good enough) and then if required finish off with files. (triangular files for square holes)

Hope this helps

[MattBower]

Grant's idea seems like a great solution. The only reason I can think of to prefer a square hole right now, over Grant's idea, is that square shank hardy tools are commercially available.

As kind of an aside, it's kind of funny to me how people get hung up on having tools that look a certain way. So, for example, you get all this unnecessary welding and grinding on old anvils, and trouble thinking outside the box on new ones. People grind and cut pieces of rail to look like London pattern anvils, even though they're terribly inefficient that way. There are far better ways to make a rail anvil, but because they look funny hardly anyone ever uses those methods. I don't mean to offend; this is a common thing, and I'm sure I've done it. It's just interesting to me.

[Wesley Chambers]

make my hardy tools with a round shank, drop them in the hole and weld on a pin sticking down another hole.

Good idea of the week~

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

Grant's idea seems like a great solution. The only reason I can think of to prefer a square hole right now, over Grant's idea, is that square shank hardy tools are commercially available.

As kind of an aside, it's kind of funny to me how people get hung up on having tools that look a certain way. So, for example, you get all this unnecessary welding and grinding on old anvils, and trouble thinking outside the box on new ones. People grind and cut pieces of rail to look like London pattern anvils, even though they're terribly inefficient that way. There are far better ways to make a rail anvil, but because they look funny hardly anyone ever uses those methods. I don't mean to offend; this is a common thing, and I'm sure I've done it. It's just interesting to me.

And most 1" shank hardy tools will fit nicely in a 1-1/4" round hole (maybe with a little grinding of the corners).

[ThomasPowers]

Wire EDM anyone?

[Wesley Chambers]

Wire EDM anyone?

that is some neat stuff
EDM Examples

[MattBower]

And most 1" shank hardy tools will fit nicely in a 1-1/4" round hole (maybe with a little grinding of the corners).

Heh. You gotta get up pretty early to outsmart Grant.

Wire EDM is cool!

[bajajoaquin]

Well, here's my take: Forget what it should be like and think about why. Why did they make square hardy holes in the first place? I suppose it was to keep tools from rotating AND it was fairly easy to do when they were forging or casting an anvil. If I was in your shoes I'd make my hardy tools with a round shank, drop them in the hole and weld on a pin sticking down another hole. You don't have a "traditional" anvil, you don't need traditional tools. You might want to make a 1/2" hole close to your hardy hole just for the purpose. THAT will accomplish the same thing.

OR: Go to a rental store or pneumatic repair and ask for an old "rivet buster" bushing. This has a .925 square hole. You could press it in or weld it in.

I was thinking that you could make the hole ovoid, since that would also prevent rotation. However, this idea has the advantage of being able to use the same hole for multiple uses. Why not put your Hardie hole right next to one of your Pritchel holes. Then, there's no extra work involved, just rearranging the locations.

[cavala]

If you're good with a torch and you obviously have one, I'd burn it out and then file it true. It would no time then move on.

You could have a machine shop broach it for you, or make your own http://www.sherline.com/tip20.htm . Im pretty sure it could work I've just never done anything that size and thick.

[Sam Salvati]

could drill oversize and weld in a square tube bushing.

[Wesley Chambers]

could drill oversize and weld in a square tube bushing.

I think that's what he did with his first model

[craig]

Grant's idea seems like a great solution. The only reason I can think of to prefer a square hole right now, over Grant's idea, is that square shank hardy tools are commercially available.

One thing that is better than commercially available is easy-to-make...I don't mean to say that if it's not easy it's not worth the work...But if it takes half the time to make a nice fitting tool most people would be more inclined to make their own, with a 1/2" hardy hole you could make tools to fit it quicker and with greater ease.

[craig]

Grant's idea seems like a great solution. The only reason I can think of to prefer a square hole right now, over Grant's idea, is that square shank hardy tools are commercially available.

Sorry, I mis-read your post slightly when I relplied...you're talking shape and I'm talking size...maybe I gotta make some coffee. But I guess my main point is still sorta on topic :)

[pkrankow]

If the steel is soft enough you can open up a 1 inch round to square with a diamond point cold chisel. Drilling "connect the dots" may be harder, I did that and it was a pain. I put a 1 inch hardy in a CI anvil with a broken heel, and a piece of 1x3 mild steel bar, because I did not want to upset on the CI anvil for fear of cracking it again.

I cleaned up with a cold chisel and used something very similar to a diamond point chisel to clean the corner. If I knew what one was at the time I would have bought or made a chisel for the job.

http://www.using-tools.com/chisels.htm

Drifting may be easier yet than chiseling if you have the heat source and the ability to make a drift of appropriate dimensions.

Phil

[craig]

That drill press rattled my brain for a few minutes there until I decided to look up the mechanics of it when I couldn't figure it out... Neat !! I never would have thought of that.

The only other thing I can think of would be one of those round hacksaw blades but I don't know if it would cut evenly on something 5" thick.

[Nakedanvil - Grant Sarver]

K.I.S.S.

[esensible]

I prefer square shanked hardy tools since I also use them in my fly press and vice and square is simple. Most of my hardy tools have quite short shanks. I have a broken heal on my anvil, so made my own solid bolster for hardy tools. The bolster is a 2" thick slab welded on 4 upright 3" bars about 10" long. To make the square hole, I drilled a bunch of small holes and then chiseled it out. At 5", you have a much thicker piece of stock, but if you run hardies with a small shank, there is no need to chisel a square hole all the way through.

[edge9001]

whre can I find one of those drill bits?

[downsfish]

Wow, thanks for all of the ideas, it's funny how some are so simple that I should've thought or them myself but couldn't see the forest for the trees.

[downsfish]

OOPS! Twice I put the drift in, a little deeper each heat, the third time I went in just a little too far. I know it was too far in because it's still in there, and now it's stuck. I'll post the pics when I get home from work.