angle iron

[Link23]

hey guys, and gals if there is any. Im a man of few words so here it goes, im in school right now(medical, not english and grammer lol) and they are remodeling a building, well there is TONS of scrap angle iron they are throwing away and its the perfect thickness for knives that i like, i cant forge up here due to living in an apartment. i cut my blades out and then shape with a grinder, my question is angle iron to soft for decent knives(i want a good sharp durable knife for camping) is there a way i can harden it? thanks

[pkrankow]

Bed frame is hardenable, structural is not. Gonna need permission, and then test a sample.

Phil

[ThomasPowers]

Think of steel as being like blood; the right type can save a person, the wrong type can kill them. Just saying "angle iron" is like saying "red Blood" doesn't give enough data to let you know who you can use it on---However in general structural angle iron is not a hardenable alloy.

[Link23]

what kind of metal would be best for me then? something easy to get

[pete46]

Using found steel 1. what was it used for IE. coil spring, leaf spring, old mowerblade.etc.
This will point you in the right direction; it's old job needed carbon to work (in most cases)
2. quench test (this site has info on this test)
I hope this helps OOPS! The boss is watch'n got'ta go!

[ThomasPowers]

If you are doing only stock removal most knifemaker's supply houses carry good blades steel in easily worked sizes.

If you are forging I like car coil spring because just one of them will give you enough material for a whole lot of blades and so you can experiment on heat treat for that alloy and get it nailed and still have lots left to make knives from.

[golgotha forge & anvil]

All structural type steels (pipe,angle,channel,flat bat, etc.) are all mild steel. You could use "AR" plate (hardened plate) which has a
higher carbon content. I used some of it for the top of my home made anvil (couldn't afford a real one)..for the most part what everyone else has
said is true..go to a scrap yard and they'll have leaf springs, coil springs, etc. CHEAP..good place to start...

Gene

[Rich Hale]

Just got a few things to remind about the AR steel. Mild has pretty well been covered already.
AR is an abrasion resistant steel. The carbon content runs about .5 pts or lower. For me that is below the amount of carbon I want to make a knife from.
Maybe even more important is what is made to be used for. It resists abrasion. Or maybe another way to put that is that it will resist efforts to shape it or clean it up as part of the knife making process. It will resist grinding sanding and even sharpening operations, almost like it just does not want to be a knife. And so you know; I have not tried any of it. Almost anytime I answer a question or give my thoughts on here it is from direct experience. However as a knife maker i will not get that experience with a steel that does not seem to fit into my life a bit easier. Coil springs like said abovve are a wonderful place to start and learn from. I feel it is important to develop a way of working with any steel that you can test and then dulicate if you like the outcome. Log books help that alot. Have fun, and if you have some AR and want to give it a go...You will learn something from that steel or any others you use.

[John McPherson]

You can put waaaay to much of your time in free stuff. And have nothing good to show for it.

What is your time worth, really? If you were laid off/unemployed/on strike/summer vacation and looking for something to do, then you can putz around and call it research and recreation.

You say you are in med school, so I assume your free time is precious. Knife blanks and kits are readily available, heat treating can be outsourced or done with a plumbers torch.

If you want to learn to forge, I suggest hooking up with the local blacksmithing group for access to tools and advise.


I only know of one guy who uses AR steel for tomahawks and such, and he ain't talking. Does not play well with others.

[Link23]

yeah, i would love to make my own, and the reason for making my own is when you pay 12,000 a semester it gets tight when your working (parents dont pay for a dime of college) so even a 15.00 knife blank is expensive and not in the funds not even that i would just rather have the satisfaction of making my own knife, i make them now and sell some but they are cheap knives i make with a grinder and an belt sander

[ThomasPowers]

Well it's like the kids who want to make swords from broken leaf springs rather than springing for a new piece from the spring shop.
If you are willing to spend hundreds of dollars of time on a project that may then not work out due to problems with your starting materials---go for it! I generally suggest they mow laws or clean garages to get the low $$ needed for a piece of known steel.

[781]

I saw in your original post you can not forge due to the apartment but for those who can you can heat the angle iron closing it around a piece of high carbon. Forge weld these together and you have a cutting edge with a soft back.
Very similar to a wraped tomahawk
BAD Roger in MN

[John McPherson]

OK, limited funds, doing it your way, working from scrounged metal, stock removal, everything has to fit in a car trunk or closet when not in use. Got it.

Disclaimer: hand tools will hurt you, power tools will maim you, industrial power tools will kill you if used improperly. We run 400 students a semester through an industrial welding shop setting, and all our injuries are minor because we are relentless about safety.


My suggestion: get a 4 1/2" angle grinder, a selection of wheels, and appropriate PPE.

Grinders are the handiest thing since swiss army knives. Once you have one, you wonder how you ever got along without it. Get the best grinder you can afford. Everything under $100 these days is an import, but name brands generally hold up better. Used ones show up on Craigs list, flea markets and yard sales. IMHO, guards and handles are not optional, but mandatory. Learn to live with them, even if you do get a professional discount on stitches. A high amp grinder will torque and twist in your hand when you turn it on, and at 10,000rpm, if it catches on something, you need a firm grip and one safe side.

Course grit abrasive wheels are great for hogging out a blade profile or removing fire scale from a heat treated blade or rough forging, and will pay you back in sanding belts saved. If you get some known samples of various metals, you can do a comparison spark test of mystery metals in the field.

Thin cutting wheels allow you to break down long lengths for storage, and make hard stock into blade blanks. Old lawn mower and circular saw blades are generally free for the asking.

Wire wheels will knock off paint and rust in a jiffy, and let you see what you brought home. They are the most dangerous due to flying wires.

Sanding and polishing wheels are also available, along with masonry wheels.

Now, Personal Protective Equipment. I'm sure a med student gets the drill about blood bourne pathogens and required hospital attire. For this, you need to dress out in long sleeves and jeans, a leather apron, gloves, ear plugs, safety glasses AND a full face shield***. Dust mask or respirator strongly advised. You should already be wearing all this, except the gloves, if you use a bench grinder or belt sander.

***(I'm not kidding about the full face shield. I can send you emergency room pictures of a guy who used a grinder with no guard and no face shield. They sewed his face and gums up pretty good, but they never did find all his teeth. No, not a student.)

All of this can be acquired for less than a hundred bucks if you shop around, will last you for years, and has a resale value. Less than the cost of one bar of knife grade steel.

[ThomasPowers]

In your situation you might profit from looking over "Step-By-Step Knifemaking: You Can Do It!" (ISBN: 0878571817 / 0-87857-181-7) David Boye. ILL it at your local public library.

You may also want to look into a "one firebrick forge" made from one firebrick and a cheap little propane torch which would allow you to get your feet wet in forging and heat treat and the whole set up: forge, improvised anvil, tools would fit in a 5 gallon bucket you can haul to an outdoor locale.

[thingmaker3]

Knife-making can get the hands permanantly dirty. If you plan to be a surgeon, grubbing around inside human bodies, you might start wearing gloves when knife-making. Of course there are more specialties in medicine than I can even guess at.

For steel, there are plenty of good tools thrown away every day. Check local cabinet shops for larger cast-off saw blades or planar blades. Check auto shops for dead leaf springs. Find someone who makes custom fishing rods - they throw away perfectly good A-2 steel big enough to make small knives.

Don't ignore the steels you can't heat-treat yourself. Shipping blades off for heat treat can be quite affordable.

And please DO post pictures if you use a 420J scalpel you made! :)