pkrankow Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 If you Google what you are making for sale you may find some products that are sold on the internet and priced by other smiths. The trammel hook from earlier I found from $35-$75(+shipping), with higher prices for larger custom sizes. Good question though, what is YOUR or MY time worth, and what can the market bear? Underpricing does not guaranty better sales since people may perceive that the smith has a low opinion of what they make. Setting the price higher may cause more sales since it may be regarded as a superior product for materials and/or craftsmanship. Simple embellishments (twists, punch marks, chisel patterns, etc) on simple items enhance the value of craftsmanship. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted April 13, 2010 Author Share Posted April 13, 2010 I've added to my stock a little. I've been trying to make some toilet paper, paper towel, and bath towel holders. I snapped some pictures the other day! I am using a 1/4x1/2 inch flat bar to stamp the screw holes. I did a long taper with leaf for decoration and a knot on the end to keep whatever from slipping off. And this last is just for fun! It is the 145th Atlanta Campaign Reenactment. We had about 2000 infantry there! Whole lot of fun! We got to charge over 100 yards of open ground at attack trenches at the top of a hill! We took the trenches but then we got over run!.....We didn't retreat and fell where we stood! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted April 13, 2010 Author Share Posted April 13, 2010 These are great ideas, I have been thinking what I should start with at our local markets, and now I have a better idea. But the next question is "How do you price your work?" This always seems to be the hardest thing for me - how do YOU figure what your time is worth and what the market will bear without pricing yourself out of the market? Pricing of work??? Here is the way I look at it! Charge a decent amount! Smithing is not something you can find at your local Wal-Mart and hence we don't keep their motto of "every day low prices!" Blacksmith is an art and a specialty......charge like it is! Now what that charge is seems to vary from smith to smith. With me, I currently AVERAGE about $20-$30 an hour. (closer to $20) However, You have to decide for yourself, based upon other pricing and what YOU value your work at, what to charge! Don't let anyone talk you out of your pricing either! If someone chalenges you prices basically tell them that they should buy their own forge! I had someone fuss at me for charging $45 for a tripod/fire irons set! I'm like, ok! Go buy elsewhere chap! My thoughts!!! Other's thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mainely,Bob Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 If someone asks why the price I tell them the item comes with a lifetime guarantee and go on to explain that as long as I am living and physically able to I will repair or replace the item if anything fails on it as long as it has not been modified from original.If you accidentally back over it with the car I straighten it for free the first time.If you saw it off so it`s too short or leave it in the bilge of your boat till it rusts in two then you get to buy new. I also tell folks that the cheaper imported stuff also offers what I consider an out of sight guarantee.Once you`re out of sight,the guarantee`s up. I`m not sure if the guarantee or the humor sells the work.I like to think it`s the former. Even if they decide to go with the cheap stuff I still smile and give them a card and tell them"When it breaks you know where to find me". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spears Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Hello everyone, I haven't had the time and resources to do any art shows, but with my hobby I have entered some of my fine art in exhibitions and now and again I will win an award or get a small amount of money for placing in the top 3. Never the less a portion of the traffic will be the general public and not understanding of the value of certain hand made items of heir loom quality. In defense of your prices (even if perceived value is set sky high for instance) I always go back to the resources required because tools aren't cheap. You don't get much from the blacksmith supply store for even say $50. Adding up the cost of the forge, welders, grinders, hammers, propane etc. I consider myself rather wealthy and prosperous to even have such a hobby. I do mostly fine art "not for sale" and some comments people make about value could almost cause emotional damage. For instance this table was perceived by a member of the general public as something worth $200. Hand made from 3/4" square and 3/4" round stock, split, forged, twisted, MIG welded, ground, wire wheel brushed, clear coated, throw on a glass top. Hell, I would buy a second one of these if I could get it for just $200. Any takers? Work shops full of tools aren't cheap and it took a good portion of my lifetime to build/acquire them along with the knowledge to use them. Starting this stuff young is a good idea because all of it takes some time. Sincerely, Spears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisG Posted April 13, 2010 Share Posted April 13, 2010 Reading this thread has been very helpful to me. This year will be my first going out as the 2and, 3rd, or 4th to demo at fairs and heritage day festivals around my province (Alberta, Canada). I have been told that we do it a little differently up here. First we are invited to come and demo. We are not paid to be there but it is worked out that we are fed and watered. We set up a sales table and can sell our wares (kick-backs not required). The big thing I would think is that there is only 1 Blacksmith at the show, although by that I mean group, as there is 2 or more of us at a time, one at the counter 1-2 smithing. From what the other guy has told me the smaller things sell well. Leaf keychains/pendants/zipper pulls go for about 2$ as do mini horse shoes. Each take maybe 10 min on the forge and that holds the ppls attention and allows them to see something made from start to finish. Other items that have been made prior are displayed and priced not to badly. The pricing is not set to reflect the over all cost of making something for the demo. A keychain although only takes 10 min to make and use 2-3" of 3/8 round bar would cost alot closer to 4$ then 2 to make without markup based on 20$hr shop rate. Kids and adults alike love them and have a toonie (2$ coin up here) in their pocket to buy what you just made or have on display. The real money comes from the other items on the table that sell for a fair price as well as possible orders for a special door knocker or fireplace screen or fire set. I think the other thing that is different up here is that it is not a large outdoor sales market. It is a heritage or founders day type festival. Very little sales places, more entertainment. Since we are there as entertainment the upside is we get to sell some things to the crowd and eat very well. We share alot of knowledge, spark some interest in the art, make a few sales to maybe cover gas, possibly make a contact or two for a bigger sale, but most importantly we get to pound steel, meet people, and have alot of fun. See a demo or festival as a job and that is what it is, see it as a time to have fun with others and share your knowledge and that s what it is. You decide. Sorry for the couple tangents, hope that I was able to share some helpful thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted April 13, 2010 Author Share Posted April 13, 2010 Yea things are a bit different here.......we pay to go and then we are left to our own resources for food! Maybe I'll move up your way! I agree that the event is what you make it. There are many times when I look at it as a real chore, and then it is! But then there are other times when I really get into it and am much more interactive. It shows in the enjoyment obtained from the even and in the tally of $$$ at the end of the weekend! That's one nice table up there too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted April 15, 2010 Author Share Posted April 15, 2010 Craft fair this weekend! The drive is from Columbia Ky. to Dahlonega Ga....about 5-6 hrs! Set up starts Friday evening! I am hoping to lay out my enventory and get a picture of it......but don't know if I'll have time! Will get booth shots though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 The pricing has always been a difficult aspect, some people have very high oppinions of thier skill and get big $$$$$$$ for it others don't charge enough, IMO, and then you get stuck in there with them. I try to not price according to hours as then as you get quicker the item that you used to get $10 for is now worth $8 even though it is executed better. That said you will find that some things take more time than you will ever get paid for so they need to be dropped from the items that you carry. I try hard to bring things that look like they took longer to make than they did then I get paid well for them. Some day maybe I'll get Frosty over here to show me how to post pictures here. He has helped me with that sort of thing before. I like your TP holder, good thinking to use the 1/4 x 1/2 for your countersink, you can use round stock for a different look in the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 well this is how i make my liveing . i do shows all summer and a couple in the winter along with sales in my shop. my shop is in a museum (they added the building on for me) and after 3 years its finally starting to sell a bit. prices are always a problem ... usually people starting out are priceing way low "its only a hobby" mentality but really they should charge a reasonable charge or give it away . It drives the percieved value down for the rest of us . hourly rates are another thing most people dont understand . if you are selling the item then you should take a ordanary rate and double it because your being a manafacturer and a retailer! so lets say you can keep the shop doors open with 20$ a hr ... thats a good WHOLSALE rate then and thats actually low for most types of manafacturing or even repair!(ask a car mechanic at a regular shop if you can get your car fixed for 20 dollars a hr!) in retail most stores work on the principle of 100 % markup (ie if it costs them 10 buck they sell for 20) now most of you are saying about now WOW my stuff will never sell for that! and you might be right but... if you really look at what is out there and do a honest compareson you will be suprised at how much your work is really worth. the skills and tools you are useing dont come for free and you should get value for them . ok now i had my rant (i did the same when i first started) . here is a couple pictures of my shop getting close to travel time.most of this goes with me to be sold in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 The pricing has always been a difficult aspect, some people have very high oppinions of thier skill and get big $$$$$$$ for it others don't charge enough, IMO, and then you get stuck in there with them. I try to not price according to hours as then as you get quicker the item that you used to get $10 for is now worth $8 even though it is executed better. That said you will find that some things take more time than you will ever get paid for so they need to be dropped from the items that you carry. I try hard to bring things that look like they took longer to make than they did then I get paid well for them. Some day maybe I'll get Frosty over here to show me how to post pictures here. He has helped me with that sort of thing before. I like your TP holder, good thinking to use the 1/4 x 1/2 for your countersink, you can use round stock for a different look in the same way. I'll be more than happy to show you how to post pics here Mark. It isn't as hard as the software writers make it look. It isn't as simple as it used to be but it's not too bad. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easilyconfused Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 To add to that whole pricing arguement, I started pricing on the $20 an hour minimum. Some stuff I can sell for closer to $100 an hour because there are things being sold retail that are of the similar market but a different product. Now I've started getting orders and backlogged with school taking up my time so I've been pricing higher to try and deter people. Problem is it hasn't worked.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted April 20, 2010 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 I will agree that the $20.00 an hour is low for smith work. Like was already mentioned this isn't something you find everybody's brother doing at the next street corner. I have bumped up some of my pricing this year, but I haven't figured out the average per-hour income, that my new prices come out to! Here are some pictures of the craft fair I did this weekend! It went great and we made over double what we did last year at this festival! I got to meet "thecelticforge" and do a bit with him, which was fun! The downside was I got a piece of scale in my eye on Sunday afternoon, which culminated in an ER visit.......so....so much for making double what we did last year! I'm all better now and before some of you safety poice guys roast me, my grandad is working on a custom pair of safety glasses to send. (they have the side flanges and all, will have my prescription, poly carbonate lenses, and a medium tint to protect from the brightness of the fire!) Pictures now! Our newly designed display racks! My side! Demoing! Got a custom order for a pair of fire place tongs! First pair I've forged, but I think they turned out nicely! I told the lady 2 hrs to make them, and including interuptions (coating more dinner bells with wax and lunch) I came in at about 1 1/2 hrs. in labour! The client and the smith! Self explanitory! Much thanks goes to "thecelticforge" for giving me a brief lesson in forge welding! I did four consecutive successfull forge welds using his method, though I did fail when I tried welding flat bar ends together! Thanks for the steel and wax too! It was good to meet ya! Thoughts??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted April 20, 2010 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 P.S. I'm not down on the safety police! It was kinda a joke! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisG Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 hmmm..... Maybe having an emergency eyewash with you? I wear glasses myself at work wear normal safety glasses with a special insert with my prescription in it. That aside, very nice setup, LOVE the forge trailer. Your hood on there gives me an idea. The tongs look great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 You mentioned another aspect that is important for pricing items: there is a lot of time running a business that isn't production time. Time spent ordering and picking up materials, cleaning the shop, demoing at fairs *all* should be included when you calculate a shop rate---and that includes time/costs of getting yourself put back together after a mishap! (Why safety equipment is so very cheap---compared to ER and Dr visits!) Most small craft businesses are one major accident away from total bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted April 20, 2010 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 You mentioned another aspect that is important for pricing items: there is a lot of time running a business that isn't production time. Time spent ordering and picking up materials, cleaning the shop, demoing at fairs *all* should be included when you calculate a shop rate---and that includes time/costs of getting yourself put back together after a mishap! (Why safety equipment is so very cheap---compared to ER and Dr visits!) Most small craft businesses are one major accident away from total bankruptcy. Those are some good points! I'm hoping to be able to retime myself in my work to see exactly what I am making an hour now! I've got my work cut out for me inbetween now and Mother's day! Wew! I sold out of dinner bells this weekend! I sold 11 And this next show that I need more for, is supposed to be about 3 times as big as this one! So at least by the time I get done I'll have figured out what I make time wise on dinner bells! LOL Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogan_Baker Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Dave, I am glad that you did so well at your craft show. I have never actually sold any work at a craft show, but it seems like you should have some items for oriented for spring time. Such as maybe BBQ grill tools, gardening tools, hose guides (basically just fancy little stakes that you put into the corners of your flower beds), plant hangers and holders, and maybe a weather vane or two if you are really ambitious. You could also try doing some camping utensils like meat forks and ladles to go along with your camping tripods. Don't forget that you would have to sell 40 $5 hooks to make the same amount as a $200 weather vane. That towel rack looks really good! Hogan Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 4, 2010 Author Share Posted May 4, 2010 Dave, I am glad that you did so well at your craft show. I have never actually sold any work at a craft show, but it seems like you should have some items for oriented for spring time. Such as maybe BBQ grill tools, gardening tools, hose guides (basically just fancy little stakes that you put into the corners of your flower beds), plant hangers and holders, and maybe a weather vane or two if you are really ambitious. You could also try doing some camping utensils like meat forks and ladles to go along with your camping tripods. Don't forget that you would have to sell 40 $5 hooks to make the same amount as a $200 weather vane. That towel rack looks really good! Hogan Baker That's some very good advice! I made a grill fork at the last festival, but no gardening tools or hose guides and such yet. Well, I'm geting ready to do it again! This weekend I'm heading to Louisville to a craft show. Seems like a pretty big one, but there may be some sort of booth situation problems I'll have to deal with there. We've paid the fee and were "juried" in, however, we are not listed as juried artists and the lady I talked to made it sound like they were planning on sticking us somehwere separate from the other artists. I'm going to be a tad bit miffed if they do. These jury fees aren't cheep! Anyway, Got my stock back up! I've got 12 dinnner bells done and I'm planning on taking plenty of blanks to demo. Several paper towel bars, toilet paper bars, etc. I still have the fire screen and pot rack. I designed one more of each of those and had hoped to get them done to take as well, but just don't have the time. Between fixing our barn up, putting in 900 ft. of fencing, dealing with the path of destruction left by the late flooding, and general farm mattenance, I have little time to do more than barely get my stock up! But I think I have enough stuff to really do well this weekend. The only thing that I don't have that I REALLY want is the horseshoe signs and crosses. They are hot sellers, but I ran out of horseshoes and haven't been able to get any more used ones! Wish me luck! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Hey gang, this is Frosty. I'm at Metalmangler's showing him how to attach photos. . . Well, I was learning how to make a pair of tongs earlier but that's not what I'm doing right now. Anyway, this is a pic of a door knocker Mark made on commission a while back, not that it's a current piece, heck, it sold a long time ago but it's the pic we clicked on to try posting here. Hopefully this is just the start, Mark has lots of pics. Frosty the Lucky at Mark's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 22, 2010 Author Share Posted May 22, 2010 That's NEAT! Looks about like my little dog! LOL I've been wanting to do a door knocker but can't do the neat little heads and stuff! MORE PICTURES! MORE PICTURES! LOL Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Just a thought Dave, if you sold out of your dinner bells last time, then next time round you should probably raise the price a little. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieryFurnace Posted May 22, 2010 Author Share Posted May 22, 2010 Just a thought Dave, if you sold out of your dinner bells last time, then next time round you should probably raise the price a little. hehehe! I make pretty good on my dinner bells as it is! Mine are different though, not just a triangle! I use 3/8" round instead of 1/2" and put a scroll on the bell. I think I'm going to start doing some large 15" ones out of 1/2" and sell them for a bit more.....maybe include a hook and string! The chimey sounding smaller ones get the women everytime but the 1/2" big boy will get the single men I suppose! LOL Here are some more ideas! I got this change dish idea from another blacksmith but her's was copyrighted so I changed the shapeing of mine quite a bit. Mine isn't copyrighted and it is made from a 5 inch square of 1/8" plate! The last event I did was on Mother's day so I took a venture and made my mother my first rose on site! Turned out well! Paul Garret (artist in resident at John Campbell) showed me some square stock s-hooks he made. They were bent on the corner instead on the flat side of the square bar and then had a twist in the middle. I made 10 total in four sizes to take to this last event and couldn't keep up with the sales! I use 1/4 inch square and start with the following lengths: Small: 8" Medium: 12" Large: 16" X-Large: 20" I sold 14 of them all weekend, mostly small and medium but I sold two each of the larger ones too. They are fun to make, are good demo pieces, and at least for me, successful! Like I said before, I think it is good to have some larger pieces out just to show people what is possible and maybe get an order or direct sale that really puts you ahead in covering expenses and making the trip worth it. I got a $500 custom firescreen order off of my display screen at this event! It is my first real big custom job so it is neat for me but even better, it really made the trip worth it. So keep that in mind when preparing your displays! (I told mom she was going to have to sell a lot of soap to catch up with that one! LOL We kind of tease each other about who makes more!) Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzonoqua Posted May 22, 2010 Share Posted May 22, 2010 Dave, " I make pretty good on my dinner bells as it is!" I am sure you do! So add another dollar or two onto the price, customers will hardly notice and at the end of the day it all adds up for you!!! Selling out is one of those "indicators" of being able to raise your prices, is all. I love the heart shaped stand for the flower, it's really sweet! I sell tons of flowers, ones for the garden, ( no stand- you can just spike into the earth) -and I find that women are usually the ones that hold the purse strings, so if you can make stuff to appeal to the fairer sex, then you'll be laughing! and yes, I always make sure that I have a centrepiece or two on the table, you know you're most likely not going to sell it, but it gets attention and lets customers know that it's not just hooks and dinnerbells that you do! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted May 23, 2010 Share Posted May 23, 2010 Well I took a stab at this and it did not work so I'll try again. Here are some items that I have sold, and continue to carry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.