Alec.S Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 hi two days ago i was in my forge and i couldn't think what to do/make so i decided to practice some forge welding. After a long time of trying to get borax( because i'm in the uk) i tried to use it i folded over a piece of steel, wire brushed then i put borax on at red heat............And funnily enough it didn't weld i tried again 3 more times but it still didn't work. BUT when i tried it without borax it welded perfectly well. well that's my strange happening of the week.....whats yours? :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Mine happened last week- I think I'll sit this one out See "sometimes life is scary" thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 There are two schools of thought about whether to put borax between the interfaces of the pieces to be welded or not. I don't. I fold and make it tight without daylight. I flux the resulting shuts. I think a little flux enters the interstice by capillary attraction when at a bright heat. At a welding heat, hammer from the folded end toward the open end to squeeze any soup and dirt out. http://www.turleyforge.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beth Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 hi alec - interesting... ive been trying (in uk) with borax and having pretty poor results. i have heard that in the uk nobody really uses it- i dunno - im starting to think maybe i should ditch the borax and do the uk style with a bit more conviction - i might get better results like you?? :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 hi two days ago i was in my forge and i couldn't think what to do/make so i decided to practice some forge welding. After a long time of trying to get borax( because i'm in the uk) i tried to use it i folded over a piece of steel, wire brushed then i put borax on at red heat............And funnily enough it didn't weld i tried again 3 more times but it still didn't work. BUT when i tried it without borax it welded perfectly well. well that's my strange happening of the week.....whats yours? Did you put it back into the forge and reheat to a welding heat? or did you just try and weld it after fluxing? There is no reason to use flux if you can weld it without fluxing. I would suspect it wasn't at a high enough heat to take. We are holding a forge welding master class on May 15th at Westpoint for any one interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Borax is easily (and cheaply) available in the UK from chemists and ironmongers etc, it's used in laundry I believe. Another common beginners' mistake is to strike the first few blows too hard, I think what happens is that the surface layers of molten metal get forced out rather than fusing. Remember that forge welding is closer to soldering or brazing than a true weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 What i did was take it out the fire at orange heat(after folding), wire brushed then applied borax and let it melt in to the seams slightly....then i tried to forge weld it not to hard not too soft! ( with flux ) when i did it without flux i just left out the the flux. alec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete46 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Is your forge side ,bottom draft or gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted January 16, 2010 Author Share Posted January 16, 2010 side blast. but i don't mind it not working with flux it saves me money! so what were Your strange happenings in the forge? :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 What i did was take it out the fire at orange heat(after folding), wire brushed then applied borax and let it melt in to the seams slightly....then i tried to forge weld it not to hard not too soft! ( with flux ) when i did it without flux i just left out the the flux. alec Not hot enough, needs reheating after fluxing to welding heat, Just takes longer if you are using flux, flux is not essential. There are occasions when some pieces won't weld either with or without flux, don't know why, but it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec.S Posted January 16, 2010 Author Share Posted January 16, 2010 sorry i forgot to say i put it back in the fire then tried to forge weld it.....oops :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 That makes it difficult to make a positive reason for them not sticking, if heat is right, and applied pressure correct, then they should fuse. Sorry can't be more helpful, but unless actually observing its quite difficult to identify specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Falcon 72 Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Mine happened last week- I think I'll sit this one out See "sometimes life is scary" thread Yes, and I appreciate your story. I had to lift a 500 lb welding table out of the back of my pickup with the front-end loader on my tractor. I was very careful to check my coat everytime I got off the seat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted January 17, 2010 Share Posted January 17, 2010 Did you "flick" the slag and excess flux off an instant before welding? Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Beuler Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 'Tis just the infernal gremlins of the forge having their merry way with you... Try some mousetraps baited with various small nuts, bolts etc. or if you live near an airport bait with aircraft rivets. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 While the subject of why my weld didn't take comes up fairly frequently this time it's a bit harder to guess what's actually going on. A couple things, unless you're an experienced forge welder you're saying you didn't hit it too hard or just right doesn't actually tell us anything. If you aren't experienced what are you basing your "just right" judgement on? Same for it being the right temp. This may just be my opinion but I have to wonder. If you have the experience to know what's a good temp and let it soak so it's hot where it counts. Which is what you imply when you say it was hot enough it makes me wonder why it didn't weld. If it's actually hot enough it should've welded provided you didn't clober the xxxx out of it. About the borax, two questions: Is it the right borax? Here in the states we have two very different products made by the same company, the laundry additive borax which makes a dandy welding and brazing flux. The other product called Boraxo which is a hand cleaner and contains soap is an effective weld and braze blocker. Are you SURE you didn't accidently buy Boraxo, whatever it's called on your side of the pond? Flux question #2: did you appply too much? Too much flux will actually form a barrier between the steels preventing them from being forced close enough together to initiate the electron exchange that makes a weld. Regardless, without being able to stand there and watch you I can't TELL you what's happening to prevent a weld. The possibilities are profoundly numerous, the most common being covered before I hit the keyboard and tossed in my tuppence. If you can, find someone experienced to watch, or show you what to do. Or if it's your bent keep at it till you get it. Stiff uppler lip and all that, Frosty the Lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Yes, and I appreciate your story. I had to lift a 500 lb welding table out of the back of my pickup with the front-end loader on my tractor. I was very careful to check my coat everytime I got off the seat! Glad to hear it! As they say- Safety is no accident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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