hammering technique

[inuroku842]

I am working with a forge that I made out of a bucket, however, the entire shop sits on the floor, so I am having to kneel over the forge, the anvil (a piece of old rail iron that I flipped upside down), the whole works. I have only been doing this (blacksmithing, not just the shop setup..) for about 2 months now, but I have recdently noticed that my work gets really marred up when I am working it. I think it may have something to do with the fact that I am having to kneel over the work. Am I right in assuming this? Also, I am kind of a small framed guy, so could it just be that I can't control the hammer very well? Any tips or advice?

[Neal L]

Put everyhthing on stands so you can stand up. I've watched blacksmith in Africa that work on the ground and sit while hammering.

[Donnie]

The first thing I would do is get everything off the floor and into a more comfortable working position. If you use a properly dressed hammer and learn good hammer control through practice you will see a huge difference in the surface of your work. The more you use a hammer the better you will become. Your hammer will become an extension of your hand, versus something held in your hand. Practice. Practice. Practice.

[Bentiron1946]

After only two months of smithing my stuff still looked like cack so I'd say you just need more time. Kneeling probably doesn't help much either but you can fix that with an anvil stand of some kind for your section of RR iron. Hammer control is something that takes practice, like learning to play the piano, it take time and practice. Nothing in blacksmith is as easy as it looks. Each smith here is constantly learning something new all the time and to do that he/she has to do some time learning that new technique, so don't feel alone, we all went through it and continue to do so as we learn new skills.

[HWooldridge]

You can also dig a pit next to the anvil and forge. Accomplishes the same thing as raising the tools.

[Dragons lair]

If long enough stand the rail on end. If not use it right side up. The top is harder and slightlly crowned. Easier for drawing. Kneeling is for praying standing is for hammering.
When ya get OLD the knees will thank ya.
Ken

[Braedon]

omg Hwooldridge,,lol

[inuroku842]

Hey guys, thanks for the input. For the time being I will have to work on the ground, unless I happen upon a stump or something like that. I can't stand my rail iron on end, not tall enough and the other side is all jacked up, really worn out. Think I could probably grind a new surface onto it?
If you say it can be done while sitting on the ground with enough practice, then I believe you and will work in this fashion until I can get up on my feet. I work on my porch on the second story so I don't think digging a pit would quite work, though a good suggestion, hadn't though of that.

[dablacksmith]

You can also dig a pit next to the anvil and forge. Accomplishes the same thing as raising the tools.

i saw a picture of this (or maybee it was vider) from turkey .. looked like it worked..

[Dave Budd]

working on the ground can be a little more tricky to get used to than standing up (such as when punching holes or you need to move around the anvil), but for the most part it shouldn't be a problem. At least I've never found it to be a problem and I spend most of the summer months on my knees demonstrating.

if you kneel upright rather than sitting back on your heals then you are basically in the same position as if you were standing anyway. The problem may be if you anvil is too low or too high; so try to set the anvil so it is a little above knuckle height when knelt up (if it's at knuckle height then it often feels too low I find).

It could just be due to lack of hammer control on your part. In which case, just practice and you will improve! maybe try a lighter hammer and get into the swing of things ;)

[tzonoqua]

If you must work on the ground, which is an acceptable way of working in a lot of places in the world, then it's better to sit in a squat position rather than kneeling, it's really very hard on the knees to kneel. This can be a bit tricky at first, and takes some getting used to but a person can be quite nimble in this position. If needs be get a small stool, or whatever may be the right height to sit on.

I worked in India in this position and the blacksmiths there had small, what I would describe as "hard" cushions to sit on, only a few inches high. Whatever you do, make sure you are comfortable and not straining your back. Hammer control takes practice in the best of situations, and if you are in an uncomfortable position you will be making it harder for yourself.

Good luck.

Colleen

[pkrankow]

When I started a few months ago I sat on a wheel ramp. It was the perfect height, but I had no power in my swing. Getting a stump for the anvil and off the ground really helped.

I also later discovered that the store bought hammers have a terrible face on them and took quite a bit of grinding and filing to dress. Once dressed my projects instantly became better looking. My hammer control is still improving.

Phil

[rokshasa]

yup after 2 years of smithing i can only now tell(or i've only now noticed) that my hammer tech. is better , when i work on a project i can see where my hammer has to go to make the metal move the way i want and thats pretty much what its all about...learning . as for working on the floor, many ppl in many contries work on the ground but i prefer standing, it's really a question of comfort and what you have available, if your having trouble try setting up stands, having evrything in relatively close to the forge is also helpfull to me i try and keep evrything i use the most (anvil, forge and vise) no more than 3 to 4 feet away in a trangle setting
that is the forge is 3 to 4 feet from the anvil and vise ,the vise the same and anvil the same. hope this helps some.

[David Einhorn]

.... Getting a stump for the anvil and off the ground really helped. I also later discovered that the store bought hammers have a terrible face on them and took quite a bit of grinding and filing to dress. Once dressed my projects instantly became better looking. My hammer control is still improving. Phil

I have to agree strongly with Phil. Getting the anvil off the ground is also important to prevent repetitive motion injuries where once the damage takes place are with you for life.

I especially agree that a lot of your hammer marks are likely caused by the shape of your hammer's face. A good hammer will have a slightly domed face and well rounded edges so that it does not leave dings in the surface of your project.

A simple stand may be made from alternating 2"-by-4"s or 2"-by-6"s.


Also if I may humbly suggest adding your location to your profile so people can tailor answers to your location.

You can place your location in the "Location" in the "Other Information" section of the forums "Profile". An example can be seen under my Avatar.

How to put a location under your Avatar

Step 1. Click on your name on the upper right hand corner of this screen for example Bob would click on “Mainely.Bob”.
Step 2. Scroll down and Click on "My Profile"
Step 3. Chick on “Edit My Profile” button near the upper right corner of the screen.
Step 4. Scroll down in the next screen to “Other Information” heading on the screen.
Step 5. In the “Location ” box, type your location into this box.
Step 6. Scroll to the bottom of this screen and click on the box that says, “Save Changes”.

I hope this helps. If not let me know where I may need to elaborate.

[Mark Wargo New2bs]

I started forging with a pit dug in the ground for the fire and a piece of rail road rail. My back hurt after forging. Once I moved the anvil and forge to a comfortable height, no more problems. As for an anvil stand, If you live anywhere that has gotten as much rain fall as we have in Arkansas, I'm sure there are lots of old oak trees on the ground and most folks would be happy to have you come haul off pieces.

You mention that you are forging on your second story porch. I'm curious what precautions you take for fire hazards.

Mark

[Dragons lair]

Another thing about working on the porch. If its all wood how much flex is there? A friend had a stout plank floor
with a crawl space under. Worked him to death till he found a 30 gal drum and filled with sand.
Ken

[ThomasPowers]

Second the drum filled with sand! Helps quiet the anvil too
As mentioned previously as well: is your hammer face dressed to have no sharp corners?

Look at what is causing the dings; then figure out what is needed to avoid them---different height, dressed hammer face, more practice---control! (too heavy a hammer can be a factor too)

[beth]

i agree with colleen - far better to squat than kneel, like the african guy at the start of the post - if you are flexible enough and that position is comfortable, it is a treid and tested position that has been used for millenia and has its own kind of mobility. Not sure about how heavy type of work you can do in this position ???? - but i reckpon you would put strain on yr lower back as well as your knees if you are hammering kneeling. Having said that - everyones physionomy is different and limbs are different lengths so go for what feels right i say! :)