C-Channel on top of anvil and tapered hardy ?

[kunkle]

I was wondering if it made any sense to wedge a piece of c-channel on top of my anvil to keep from beating up the face while I am starting out?

I have an old and used columbia anvil, it has rough edges and a flat top. I can not tell how thick the top is and I do not want to tear it up during the learning phases.

Also how do you care for an anvil?

Lastly, my anvil has a 7/8 inch hardy-hole, will using tapered hardies in it cause internal stresses and make it more prone to cracking? Am I hitting the hardies too hard if I have to beat them out from the bottom to remove them?

[pkrankow]

Your hardies may be the wrong size. They should set down on the shoulder and have very little wiggle, but not wedge tight.

The anvil should be hard enough to tolerate hammering on HOT metal. If you are worried about using edge tools, many people use a plate to protect against cutting.

Welcome aboard. Hope this helps.

Phil

[Rob Browne]

The saddle would not cause any problems, you would just miss a bit of rebound. Saddles are commonly used when cutting on your anvil to protect the surface and when you need a sharp edge, etc. In otherwords, use your anvil as you feel necessary and it protecting the surface will allow you to forge in a more relaxed fashion then go for it.

As for the tapered hardies there was a long discussion about them here a while ago. Most agreed that tapered hardies were not good as they can really stress your anvil and there are many photos on the web of anvils with the heel broken off across the hardy hole. Generally most go for a hardy that fits the hole easily with no wedge effect.

Happy hammerin

[Dragons lair]

I would not wedge a c channel. If you wish to protect the face. Find a plate same size. add a hardy stem. Will protect the face and or give you a cutting plate. Your hardy should not stick/wedge itself in the hole. Use angle iron spacers or fit (weld up and grind)
or forge them to fit snug not tight.
Ken

[MattBower]

I second DL's suggestion. A plate with a hardy shank will be more efficient, energy-wise, than a piece of c-channel like you propose

[Avadon]

A lot of people confuse stake tools, with anvil hardy's. Stakes have no shoulder on the shaft and usually have pointyness at the bottom. They fit into a a stake plate and are used for coppersmithing, tinsmithing, jewelry work, armour, etc. Stake tools look like this below. They should never be put in your anvil as the wedge can put undue strain on the heel and even snap the heel off.



These types of tools go into this, a stake tool holder. Or they can be put in post vices or even put into stumps. (Again never use them in anvils)


These below are hardy tools. The square shaft which is usually 1", in your case 7/8", goes all the way down into the hardy hole until the shoulder portion sits flat on the anvil face. This disperses all the force of the blow across the anvil face and puts no force on the hole itself.



You will probably find that your hardy tools only fit in one orientation and quite often only in one anvil. Thus most people tend to keep their hardy's next to that anvil that they go in, sort of like a matched set. Of course you can always reshape a hardy that was from another anvil to fit in yours using hot work or some filing/grinding/sanding. Hardy's should fit with very little clearance, if any. Sometimes that last tap will just be ever so light (I mean quite light) to get it sitting on its shoulder. If you drop it in and it's clearly not even close to getting down to the shoulder, do not pound the thing into place, that is a great way to damage your anvil or break the heel off. Likewise there should not be a lot of slop or play in the hardy tool, that can make the hardy hole eccentric from repeated use. So were looking for a very close fit to the lightest snugness, but certainly not stiffness. You shouldn't have to pound a hardy into the hole nor pound it out. Shave some off the edges till it slips in for a smooth fit that preferably can be taken in and out by hand, or at most a very very light tap on the side of the hardy while you lift it out by hand.

Hope that helps
Cheers.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Avadon

[Avadon]

I was wondering if it made any sense to wedge a piece of c-channel on top of my anvil to keep from beating up the face while I am starting out?

I have an old and used columbia anvil, it has rough edges and a flat top. I can not tell how thick the top is and I do not want to tear it up during the learning phases.

Also how do you care for an anvil?

Lastly, my anvil has a 7/8 inch hardy-hole, will using tapered hardies in it cause internal stresses and make it more prone to cracking? Am I hitting the hardies too hard if I have to beat them out from the bottom to remove them?

You can also use something like a Harbor Freight cheapie anvil to learn on, or even do your "practicing" on. I definitely have some cheaper ASO's/Anvils I use when I feel like I'm bordering on doing something dumb that may hurt the anvil. I also learned on a cheap ASO that I put tons of dents in the face of. But no problem, I just left them or ground them out with the angle grinder. Lots of little peens from ball peen hammer misses. :P

[mite5255]

if someone was to buy a hf anvil could you then weld or attach in some way a half decent piece of plate on top as a working surface and would it then be a better anvil

regards mike

[David Einhorn]

Another hint is to work at the edge of the anvil. That way if you miss hitting the work piece or your hammer bounces off the work piece, the hammer has a good chance of missing or bouncing off the anvil rather than striking the anvil.

[ThomasPowers]

A plate over the face usually makes it LOUD! I use one for cutting but always wear the hearing protectors when doing so. I would just forge on the face.

HF anvils are cast iron getting a good steel face welded to cast iron is usually a much bigger waste of time and money than just getting a big chunk of scrap steel to hammer on. One SOFA member demos using a piece of 9" shaft he got at the scrap yard. Cut his anvil stump to hold it flat or up on the curved edge to use it for drawing. Lovely steel anvil, much better and cheaper than a cast iron ASO! I once found a broken knuckle from a railroad car coupler. Had a flat section and a curved section was great steel and was FREE. Don't waste your money on ASOs!

Edited September 29, 2009 by ThomasPowers

[Sweany]

soften the face of your hammer, and you won't beat up your anvil.


my .02

[pkrankow]

Depends on the cost of the hammer. If its a $10 hammer from the big box store, sure, but if its an antique heirloom or a "custom" made hammer, that could damage an expensive tool. I suggest you buy an inexpensive hammer if you want to try softening it so as not to destroy a "good" or expensive hammer.

I also suggest you reshape a production hammer handle to your hand since there is likely too much extra material for a good comfortable grip.

Phil

Edited September 29, 2009 by pkrankow
expensive

[Bentiron1946]

Quit worry about missing the hot metal and hitting your anvil. Within a week of hot forging you will not be missing the metal. If the anvil is that fragile it must be an old Vulcan cast iron and ani't worth worrying about anyway. Get it hot and beat it. Practice will eliminate the missing the metal and hitting the anvil.

[WillMag]

I think your best bet would be to use a hammer that is softer than the anvil face so while your getting hammer accuacy up to speed your not damaging the face of your anvil. It's much easier to dress up a hammer or make a whole new one for that matter than doing the same thing with your anvil.
You can soften your hammer by taking out the handle and heating it to higher temper temperature then when you originally heat treated, I'd try a dark blue.
As someone alreay mentioned working on the edge of the anvil is always a good idea when forging tapers.

[thecelticforge]

I use a piece of square tubing over my anvil as a saddle. As noted above, the sound is horrid. I fixed that by gluing a piece of 5/8" plywood to the bottom. It helped a lot. I have been toying with the idea of using a plywood and lead sandwich to completely deaden the sound.