big josh 1847 Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I am trying to make a goblet out of heavy wall black pipe. what can I use to coat the inside? I have been told to use copper. Will that corrode if used for drinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Copper has been used for centuries in cooking pots... modern technology suggests that it may be responsible for many serious health problems though. Clean copper seems fairly benign but verdigris (corrosion) is quite dangerous. Tin is considered quite safe and can be applied to steel or copper surfaces. It is really quite easy to do as tin melts at pretty low temps. You do need to get the right tin though, some (mostly old stock now) plumbing solders had lead in them and even newer plumbing solders have some other ingredients that you DON'T want for food use. Pure tin or food grade is what you want. This is still used to coat cans for food today, so it seems to be pretty safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big josh 1847 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Thank you for the info. Is thear something I could use that has a beter color contrast? Could the copper be sealed? Any info would be greatly appericated. Brass maby or would I run into the same problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Do NOT use copper, it's bad for you. Do a web search for tinning supplies / suppliers/ etc. or variations should get you what you want. "Tin" cans have been plastic coated inside since the early 60's anyway. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big josh 1847 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Thank you Frosty. I will try tin. I really appericate all the help on my first "posted" question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big josh 1847 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Can I use lead free solder Or does it have to be pure tin? I did a quick tinning supply search without much luck. Once again all your help is very much apprecated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I have heard recently that copper is better for applications such as water pipes due to the fact that it kills microbes naturally. What about all of the copper used for water lines ,cooking pots, stock pots, etc.? The candy company I worked at had large copper vats that were used in the kitchen. Coors beer has the largest copper kettles in the industry, and many distilleries use copper stills. You would think if copper was bad that the FDA would be shutting places down that use it. As for the goblet, you can have it plated. They can even do a selective plating for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 There is a product for finishing wooden salad bowls.... called "Wooden salad bowl finish" of all things (don't remember manufacturer or brand name)... its a heavy urethane with a lot of preserving oil... it is food safe... I don't know how it does on steel.... but I been thinking about trying it on iron ware I want to eat drink out of.. good luck and send pics Cliff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfootnampa Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 There is some variance of opinions on the toxicity of pure copper for food uses BUT the preponderance of expert opinion seems to be that it is an unnecessary risk. Silver is a workable alternative to tinning though it requires much more heat/skill than tinning. Pure silver is widely available and better than sterling for tinning foodware as it tarnishes less easily (the main advantage of sterling is strength... unneeded for coating ironware). You do NOT want hardware store lead free solder because it likely contains antimony which is also bad. Here is one source of pure tin bar not too far from you:Tin Based Castings, Tin Alloy Castings, Custom Mold Tin Cast Balls, High Purity Tin Alloy Supplier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don A Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I believe the biggest problem with copper is when acidic liquids are used; citrus juices, vineagar, etc. What would be wrong with using it unplated? Maybe warm it and apply a little bee's wax between washings? Of course you could build a form and pour it with lead-free pewter. Probably about the same stuff as metioned above, but I'm talking about a thicker, poured interior instead of just a molten wash plating. Would certainly make for a heavy rascal. Put a long stem on it and it could double as a club. Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Copper cookware has been tinned by low tech methods for centuries. It's not too hard---I did my first batch in May of this year. Tin is easy to find McMaster-Carr has it! But it was cheaper at Tin Ingot from Rotometals You will need flux however and I used the stuff sold at McMaster-Carr. Remember to clean THROUGHLY before and after tinning. As for when it was used Theophilus mentions tinning wrought iron objects in "Divers Arts" written in 1120 A.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big josh 1847 Posted September 5, 2009 Author Share Posted September 5, 2009 Wow! Thanks for all the info. My goblet will mainly be used for beer. I like the pure tin idea. If I blacken the outside and tin the inside it should have a fairly attractive contrast. I would still like to know more about copper and it's toxicsity. I hope to start as soon as I gather all the raw materials. As soon as I figure out how I will post pics of the finished product. If it turns out that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odiferus Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I did some searching for pure tin locally with little result as well. I did find a solder that is flux free, 95% tin and 5% Antimony Alloy. It stated to be usable for potable (or portable, dont recall) drinking water. Is this acceptable? Anyone know what the Antimony Alloy is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragons lair Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Most of the moonshiners I have met used copper . the issues were soldered joints. Course the shine will kill all the bad things anyhow. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkrankow Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 You could season it like cast iron cookware. If done properly the black won't rub off and can tolerate soap and water washing, although machine washing will tend to strip the coating. I prefer shortening over oil as oil can stay sticky. If you look up copper and food poisoning it lists problems associated with acidic foods such as citrus, tomatoes, and vinegar. Copper however is an antimicrobial and may prevent food poisoning from bacteria. If you season the goblet, and don't like it, stripping the finish is very easy, so you can try something else. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martensite Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 How about a powder coat finish with one of the kits or enameling it all kinds of contrast possibilities with these Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Enameling would be a neat way to go. Tons of possibilities there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 Enameling would be a neat way to go. Tons of possibilities there. Enameling> I had a conversation with a copper smith about this very thing a few years ago. From what he said you have to enamel both sides or the tension of contraction on cooling produces cracking. It sounded like a technique I wanted to explore but I never did. Charlotte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 I think that may depend on the shape, and use of the object. Cast iron tubs, and sinks are only enameled on one side, and they have some heating and cooling going one. Enameled cookware is done all over, but I think that is more for rust prevention, and looks. Hopefully the coefficient of expansion of the two items will be similar enough to prevent cracking. Enamel is basically ground glass, and I know with glass you cannot mix different COE glass in a project without it cracking. I would think that a goblet would mainly be used for cold beverages, and it could be hand washed easily enough. Another one of those things that make you go HMMMMMMMM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadetoz Posted September 26, 2009 Share Posted September 26, 2009 In the Viking re-enactment club (which got me interested in banging hot metal) we coat drinking horns and goblets with bees wax. Simply heat it up in a pot and poor in, slosh around, and poor out the excess. Lasts about 6 months and has natural anti-bacterial properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Ra Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 There are plenty of shops that will electroplate silver or even gold into your goblet. I think modern pewter is mostly tin and safe for food , wine etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasper77 Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 There is a product for finishing wooden salad bowls.... called "Wooden salad bowl finish" of all things (don't remember manufacturer or brand name)... its a heavy urethane with a lot of preserving oil... it is food safe... I don't know how it does on steel.... but I been thinking about trying it on iron ware I want to eat drink out of.. good luck and send pics Cliff Its envirotex and there are a few other brands. We coat our horns with it and 5 years later still good. Not sure how well it would attach to metal.. I would sand it a bit first. Might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecelticforge Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I am having the same issue. However, I wish to coat my goblets and vases with enamel. Can I just grind glass and pour it in like flux? I saw a discovery channel episode where they took the heated bath tub and just poured the enamel on it and poof! Enameled tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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