Seeking advice on mine shop set up--6 pictures.

[dennis_hl]

Thought I'd post some inside shots of my shop at the mine. We are in the process of setting this up as a "frontier" forge, but it is also my working blacksmith shop so I do get to have some modern conviniences--more than I allow in my home shop I'd like suggestions from folks on how you'd go about laying it out, keeping in mind that I can have up to a dozen or so visitors standing at the door at any given time watching me work. We do not have the fortune of having the original blacksmith shop at our disposal, it is in the process of being turned into a mineral museum--I do not think we own the property where it sits so it was never even an option. However, were were given some of the tools that were still inside when they started clearing out the building, the roof had collapsed and pulled one of the walls down. I have many large tongs (I've had to make the ones I use since the old tongs are large and fused with rust, I've been able to get a few to work again) and a few of the anvil tools, which are pitted with rust. I have been able to salvage some for my use in the shop.

Here is the first photo:


This is a general view of the forge area as I now have it set up. The anvil and forge both face two large doors that open into the shop. Everyone who stands at the doors have a clear view of me working at the anvil.



The second and third shelves from the bottom hold many of the anvil tools and an asorted collection of other "things." I have quite a stack of unwelded links for a rather large chain kind of visable on the bottom shelf. I'd like to eliminate the shelves or move them to the back of the shop. Some of the items I'd like to turn into an interpretive display.



This is a really neat set of steps leading to the floor above me which has ground level access (the building is built into a hill side), now bathrooms, but once the site where carbide was distributed to the miners. One of our old facilities workers used some of the tools off the self as supports for the steps. No anvil tools were harmed in the repair of those steps.

[dennis_hl]

This view shows another set of shelves. This one contains mostly machine tools. I'd like to put many of these into accessable storage so if I need them I can get to them, but at the moment they take up a lot of room.



I'm standing at the steps looking towards the doors. Ruth is looking at something on the laptop--see not exactly a proper "frontier" shop!



This is me working at the forge. The picture is taken from where visitors stand, though I think she was a bit closer to me than they would be.

I use coke in the forge and open the door at the top of the steps for ventilation, I'd need to run a 23' tall smoke stack if I were to put a hood over the forge (shorter I guess if I were to use a large blower on the hood to move any smoke).

I'd like this to look like an old shop when we're done, ideally I'd like it to look as if it had been there for 60 years or more. Any suggestions?

[FredlyFX]

Very nice setup. Looks like lots of possabilities.

You could add a side draft hood onto your forge box and it would probably keep things pretty cleaned out.

[6013]

Paint the anvil black.

[rthibeau]

Yup, lots of possibilities. Martha Stewart would love to do a "makeover" of your shop. I'd suggest stopping whatever you're doing and start moving all that stuff in your way to the rear of the shop, moving or rebuilding the shelf units to hold it. Hang a large canvas curtain (dark color) in front of it so no one sees it and gets distracted, including yourself. That could be a few feet behind the workbench and support posts. Kind of like making a room divider situation. I'd also suggest rewiring the place so that electrical wiring runs along the support beams and under the bench and not across open air, again less distraction and neatens up the whole look. General housekeeping to remove the bottles, bags and bucket kind of stuff. Trying to keep it simple and inexpensive, another curtain on the right side wall (as the anvil looks at the doors) would give a neater impression of the space and provide another area to put stuff behind and out of sight - only needs to be a couple feet away from the wall to give storage space. If it's possible, hang a sheet of plywood from the ceiling in front of that canvas and you can attach stuff to display. Paint would be nice so no bare wood shows. And oh yeah, did you ever consider raising that anvil 4 - 6" to be more comfortable?

Sorry for the length, but you asked...:)

[Don A]

Nice site; real potential. I really like that stairway.

There is definitely an art to camouflaging your "moderns" in order to pull off a convincing period presentation. I do a 1756 site, so 60 years back should be a piece of cake

It looks like you have the potential for a dividing partition to create sort of a "back room". Like rthibeau said, I would strip the forge area down to the bare walls and then build it back the way you want it.

If you want it to look like it would have 60 years ago, don't put anything in it that doesn't look 80 - 100 years old.

Get rid of all the plastic stuff.

Hide all your pipes (pvc) and wires. Box the pvc pipes in with old wood or old metal roofing. Burlap always makes a good concealment. Use your imagination.


*** in your zeal to make it look good, be mindful of fire hazards ***

Always keep an extingusher stashed close at hand.


Check the junk shops, yard sales and flea markets for all of your containers and such. Plenty of old tins, jars and bottles on the shelves make the place look "lived in".

If you have to have electric lighting, find something more period appropriate. I'm not talking about fancy fixtures. The old hang-down, bare-bulb, pull-string rigs would look good here. But you still need to hide the glowing white Romex wire. Either conceal it or put it in galvanized conduit; then figure out how to dirty-up your conduit. The new, silver stuff will stand out too much.

For any new shelving or tables, stay away from store-bought, kiln-dried lumber. Stick with rough cut, preferably salvaged wood. Keep your eye out for old barns and sheds being torn down.

And amen to getting the red paint off that anvil. I'd just strip it and let it rust back. Not that an early 19th century shop wouldn't have had a red anvil, it just don't look right

And if you are going to be working in a Depression Era shop, you ought to look like a Depression Era smith. Search through a bunch of pictures of old shopes and mines and imitate what you see. For a period this late, you could even find appropriate safety glasses. This is a hard thing to do for the 1700's :cool:

Good luck, and keep us posted,

Don

[Thomas Dean]

1st, 60yrs ago AIN'T ALL THAT LONG AGO!!! 1946!?! That's even after WW2 not to mention the depression! So getting the shop to that era should be easy. I'm thinking more like the late 1800's early 1900's would better fit this shop. Also, the visitors may be thinking more in this era. I volunteer in a circa 1860's shop in Dallas, TX at times and EVERYTHING modern is in a back area, totally hidden from the public. They don't want to see that kind of stuff, they can go to any shop and see electric grinders and the like. Let them ENJOY the experience of seeing a TRUELY OLD SHOP. They will walk away with a greater appreciation of what you are doing and what our forefathers did 'way back when'.

Thanks for sharing! Hope I didn't sound too negative, but like rthibeau said, "you asked. :)" And please keep us posted on the progress. Would like to see how it ends up!

[Nick]

Very nice setup. I think my first suggestion would be to clean things up a bit. There are a lot of trip hazards, and a spill in there could be really messy, especially for visitors. Also, have you thought of a brick facing for the forge?

You've seen the shop at Ishpeming, I'm posting pictures of it in the gallery for the other members to see. The group's been a bit inactive recently, but we're hoping to get things going again there.

Cheers
Nick

[ThomasPowers]

VENTILATION! Just because the coke is not putting off smoke doesn't mean the fumes are non-toxic!

Anytime you think that safety is too expensive, compare it to a day or two in a hospital; generally you will find that safety is dirt cheap even if you have to scrimp and save for it!

One problem with "old" stuff is that it looks *old*; keep an eye out for repro tins so you have the right logo's but it looks like you just went out and bought it in the last 10 years or so. You may be able to find the correct clothing in thrift stores; look through old LIFE magazines for what they were wearing.

I would think old ammo crates; or for a mine old wooden explosive boxes would be more common than roughsawn lumber for shelves ...

Have a bunch of old rock drills or picks for re-pointing hanging around as that would probably have been your "bread and butter" work.

Thomas

[Swamp Fox]

Don A Always keep an extingusher stashed close at hand.

I will respectfully disagree with you on staching the fire extinguisher. Put it in plain view for all to see. It is better to trip over a fire extinguisher twice than to not be able to find the it once.

[ThomasPowers]

I'd suggest a fire extinguisher near each entrance and one near the forge. You may even find some in correct 1940's style if you are willing to have them inspected and re-charged---do not use the carbon tetrachloride ones though!

Thomas

[rthibeau]

Well, Dennis, have you picked yourself up off the floor yet after this volley of advice? Let us know what you think and/or might do.

[Don A]

Not to beat the proverbial dead horse, but the fire extinguisher deal brings up an excellent point.

You have the luxury of being viewed by the public from a single vantage point (the door). I assume they will not be allowed to venture in and roam about. Given this arrangement, it is easy to have items very close at hand and hidden from the public. You could feasibly have the extinguisher at arm's length and still concealed from the public view.

When you are setting up you shop, make your final judgments by standing where they will stand and see how it looks from that angle.

Remember, you are the Great and Powerful Oz... just don't let'um look behind the curtain :D

[dennis_hl]

First off, thanks for the adive.

It's funny, I'm blind to junk until I post the pics on line and then I see it and so does everone else.

I'm working on the anvil stand, the stump was rolled down the hill as a temp thing.

As for repainting the anvil, would stripping the paint off and using carbon black be OK?

I like the curtain idea. I'm giving a lot of though to those shelves. It may be possible to move much of the blacksmithing stuff that I'm not using up to the hoist where the tours begin and set up an interpretive display--which would get it out of my way but it would still be easilly accessable to me.

I am addressing the ventilation thing. I open the door at the top of the steps, the result is a strong draft. I'm trying to get that hood over the forge, but 23 plus feet of 10" stove pipe is expensive and that will take some time.

At the moment the ability to move the forge is important, I'm still trying to settle on a floor plan. Brick is an option, but many of the folks who stop by really like the wood box forge and as a result many walk away with the notion that they too could build a forge at home. I really like the set up down in Ishpeming, and it would be cool to get something like that going up here in the Keweenaw.

Again, thanks for the advice, and please keep it coming!
Dennis

[Thomas Dean]

Dennis, I don't think I would repaint the anvil, just 'get the red out' and let it do what it wants to. A light oily rag used to whipe it down once in a while and the beauty will look more natural. IMO My reasoning for not repainting, it will not elliminate the problem, just change the color. If painted, any time you use the side, such as making a bend, the paint will burn giving off fumes you don't want to smell, albeit they may not be harmfull, they still STINK!

Funny how that works, not seeing something until you show the world! then everybody thinks, "Man, how does he work in that mess!" At least that's the way it is with my shop. My sister-in-law saw it once last year and commented on the "arrangement" but "if you know where everything is...." Made me feel sorta bad...NAAAAW!

On the problem with the vent pipe. Check with some local businesses and see if they would like to donate some funds. (the worst they could say is 'No') You could do like I did. I used 18ga., got a local sheetmetal shop to shear, roll, and tack up. I did the welding myself. Built a sidedraft and attached the pipe to it, ran out the side of my shop and up. Has such a good draw it will pull the fire off a match, and I get NO smoke in the shop, even with all the doors open. (2 11'wide x 12'tall doors on each end of shop) Good luck and keep us posted.

[Glenn]

Most folks only use the top of the face and horn on the anvil. Paint the rest.

As to the shelves, your a blacksmith !! Make some "ladders" to hold the boards, lots of scrolls etc. Keep the span short to eliminate the wood sagging.

As to the curtain, a pipe for a curtain rod and hand forged rings, or rings with hooks for holding the fabric will work. Your a blacksmith, forge the hangers attaching the pipe to a room beam. This is where your blacksmithing skills can be displayed so give it some thought and time.

All of this should be designed to be easily moved and reassembled at the new location - nothing is permant, so plan for the move.

The anvil stump can be raised with bricks. Make it comfortable for YOU to use. Better yet, there are stump designs that are adjustable. Make a wooden frame from heavy rough cut timbers with a open box on the top. Fill (or empty) the box with sand to adjust the anvil height. It will sure help deaden the ring. You already have an audiance so you do not need to draw them in. A bright ring to an anvil in a closed space with hard walls will damage your hearing.

Please post photos so we can see the finished product.

[DSforge]

A lot of the things I see have already been discussed but I'll add my say anyway. First off the bright white wires running between the posts have to be rerun. I would run them up and down the posts not between them. The way they are now they are perfect to start hanging stuff on them(very bad thing). The wiring in my house (mine is wrapped with cloth/asbestos as far as I can tell) that is close to your target age is black I would paint it with a nonsolvent paint like latex. As stated before dropcords and ceramic outlets for lights.
Repair the shelves so they will hold wieght. I wouldn't worry alot about there being clutter on them as long it was period clutter after all who has a truly clutterless shop that is used often.
I would fix the ceiling that spot by the steps looks like a problem to me. The pvc should not be there (should be steel) but if the ceiling repair didn't cover it use a steel gray or black paint to help it look more like black or galv pipe.
The plastic bags and buckets must go. The radio must go how can you tell people about what work you are doing/would be doing in the shop if they can't hear you over the music.
As for the costume I would think something like black kahkis(sp?) and button down collared shirts that are tucked in. Saftey glasses are always period.
Is the shop roped off? That way the visitors can come in a watch and not be able to walk up beside the anvil lean down for a closer look as you were forge welding. :shock:
I have dubious feelings about the grinder in the picture but if not in sight whose the wiser.
Must have a hood to pipe that smoke outdoors. I wouldn't want to stand in the smoke to watch something made.
On a side note you may want to add an oxy/acet rig for your shop after all the mine had carbide already. However I would use tanks of it not the old carbide stuff. Put the tanks in the back and run the hoses out to the front.
Good luck on the new (err..old) shop.

[ThomasPowers]

Glen I have not seen *any* industrial shop that had a lot of "scrolls" and stuff on their storage. Plain utilitarian all the way!

You ought to be able to find an appropriate grinder, a mandrel with a motor any you might even be able to find an old motor at that!

If this is supposed to represent a real shop of the time you will want a hidden area for anachronisms---how about a radio from the 30's or 40's? Perhaps a broken one hiding a more modern sound system playing discs or tapes of songs from that period.

Note that while smoking or chewing tobacco was *very* common most folks will forgive the lack for safety reasons...

Thomas

[dennis_hl]

The boom box in the picture is only used when I'm alone after hours--it gets kinda lonely down there when no one else is around to talk to. I built a new anvil stand today. The new one is more my size, the stump was just something to use until I built a new one, you guys were my motivation to do it sooner than later.

I have recieved a donation of a leg vise for the shop, it is a 4-incher, but it will do until I get a bigger one. I also have gotten work that a local heating place is willing to donate the 30' of stove pipe for the hood over the forge. I've also been wearing one of my t-tunics that I've worn to SCA events, it looks better than the t-shirts I've been wearing. Also I've bartered some forge work for some appropriate 19th century "garb." I'm not sure were the notion of the shop representing the 1940s came from, if me I miss spoke. We're trying to represent the 1850s and a frontier copper mining company smithy.

Also, I had my first fellow blacksmith visitor to the forge. I knew something was differnt about the dude as he just watched and didn't ask any questions until the crowd broke as the next underground tour was about to begin. He gave me some input (similar to that here) about the shop design, and perhaps the most helpful being the suggestion to add borax to my slack tub to remove scale from my iron--quench hot and the slag pops off, a nearly shiny piece of metal emerges from the water.

I had some exposure to the wider public over the weekend as our local paper did a feature on me and the shop. Perhaps one of the most noticable things from the pictures was the fact that the white wires for the lights really stick out, my boss is encouraging a change to the wiring situation, which in the past he didn't think was too bad--next I need to work on him and the sewer pipes at the ceiling, but first I need to convice him that he needs to loan me a mine guide for the day so we can go after and stop all the leaks. :}

I think that's about it for the update.

BTW, I have a fire extinguisher for the shop now.

[Glenn]

Thomas, you are right. A working blacksmith of that period spent the time producing orders not making things pretty. If the public were to see both form and function, it could be a sales tool.


Strine (from Oz) made the tongs in the photo. A blacksmith easily make tools that are fun as well as useful. As you say, they may not fit that period of time.

[ThomasPowers]

Where the 1940's came from---your post saying " ideally I'd like it to look as if it had been there for 60 years or more." 2006 - 60 = 1946

Now 1850's - 60 = 1790's and probably that shop would *NOT* have been there. I think what you are trying to get at is that things should not all look *new*---a good goal. Replacing the shelves with worn wood ones is a good step. Buying a good wooden bucket to hold drinking water and using a dipper to drink out of it with can impress the tourists

To get a bit closer in clothing, look at the Blacksmith's Calendar's put out with pics from shops over 100 years ago---a tunic is *not* appropriate. However you may want to look at clothing made for the Amish, check out Laymans store in OH for such. (suspenders, button front trousers, leather shoes and broadcloth dress shirts would be a good start. There are historical shirt plans available if you know someone who sews...

Now you do need to decide on if you are trying to do an accurate portrayal for a "mine smith" in which case you need to work on mining equipment with perhaps a few things "for the boss's wife" as well or if you are just smithing in a mining forge so anything goes.

Thomas

[Glenn]

it is in the process of being turned into a mineral museum Dennis-hi

Thomas, your time frame reminder is well placed. I need to withdraw my comment about making things attractive as they do not fit the original request.

Thanks for keeping things on track and specific to answering his question.

[dennis_hl]

Now 1850's - 60 = 1790's and probably that shop would *NOT* have been there. I think what you are trying to get at is that things should not all look *new*---a good goal. Replacing the shelves with worn wood ones is a good step. Buying a good wooden bucket to hold drinking water and using a dipper to drink out of it with can impress the tourists
Thomas

Yes, that's what I was getting at. All in all, I'd just like the shop to look as if it were there for a long time. Frankly no one at the mine really seems too interested in portraying any specific time period. Dumping my t-shirt and donning one of my under tunics has gone over very well. I like the suggestion of checking out Lehmans (I've actually visited the store once). I've also gone through and cleaned up quite a bit, a lot of the crud left over from my building projects has been cleared out. It's hard to sweep a dirt floor, but a rake helps. I think perhaps an 1850s shop was a bit ambitious, and may even have been a bit silly, since we take people down the hill to the adit (dates to 1970s, though the shaft, drift, and stope date to the 1860s) using a modern hydrolic cog wheel tram. The shaft house dates to 1908, the steam hoist to 1918, and the building I'm set up in was built no later than 1880. The first perminent blacksmith shop was set up in ca 1865 and was replaced in 1900 with a large--think industrial--shop. Everyone on site reffers to my shop as the village smithy and that may be a more practicle direction for me to take. This is a work in progress and things are bound to change as this things take shape (plus what if someone wants to donate a power hammer, I think I'd be a bit crazy to turn it down, don't you?). As mixed up as I may seem to be in all of this, these posts are very helpful and I'm slowly developing a solid plan--as far as the mine goes they want a blacksmith shop and they really don't seem to concerned about what era that I'm trying to portray. So please keep the suggestions comming, they're helping.

[rthibeau]

Post some updated pics to give us something new to work on. The late 1800's shouldn't be too hard an era to replicate, you just need old stuff.

[ThomasPowers]

I'd go with the age of your building as a baseline as it's a lot easier to do, hand crank blowers, hand crank drill, london pattern anvils, etc.

See if you can pick up some of the old kerosene metal lanterns that have been converted to electricity to provide light.

"Practical Blacksmithing" by Richardson would be spot on for that time period and give you a lot of ideas on how it was back then---including the advertising plates that show smiths in 'working attire".

When you do your sign put "circa 1880" on it to let folks know.

As the "village smithy" you are wide open to what you can work on; but aware that many things will be factory made by then---except there were a lot of exceptions in semi remote areas for repairs that can't wait for a shipment or to just fill up down time with "usefull" work.

You can even discuss the change from wrought iron to that new fangled mild steel!

If you want to go earlier I have a friend who spent over a decade as the 1860's smith at the Ohio Historical Society's Ohio Village in Columbus OH that I might be able to direct you to; I don't know if he's on-line though.

Thomas