billtwild Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Hey all! Just found your forums and as an aspiring smith I am really glad I did! I have a question - I am trying to acquire a proper forge (without breaking the bank) and had considered going the route of the brake drum/rotor DIY built. One thing concerns me - I found this article :Brake Drum Forges I have read through it and being a newcomer I cant form my own opinions about his pros and cons - especially the fuel depth. Can someone give that a look see and post your opinion. Does he have any valid points that I need to take into account being new to this? Thanks! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48willys Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I can see the point he is trying to make,but as he pointed out at the end,the right fire pot can start at around $100 and that isn't with a blower that can run from $45-80(prices from around here,they can be higher or lower in your area).So what I'm saying is if you haven't got the money to do it right,you need to start somewhere.The brake drum forge can be hard to build right,but can be done and still get good results. Another thing to keep in mind, you aren't stuck with the brake drum forge, there are many good forges out there that can be built cheaply and will work great,some that you can search,washtub forge, BP0133 the 55 Forge, and there was one just a little while ago that was built from a push mower and lined with mud or something else can't remember.But do a little search on this site and I'm sure you can find plans to build something that fits your budget. Oh and welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 The answer of what forge is right for you depends on what you can afford, the skills and equipment that you already have. If money is short and you don't have access to welding equipment, then a break drum forge is workable. If you can afford a cast-iron firepot than I would recommend that. If money is short buy you have access to pieces of scrap plate and access to welding equipment, then you could weld up a firepot and forge. For a more definitive answer, we would need to know: - Where you live; change your profile to show where - What you can afford - Access to welding, tools, and fabricating equipment - Your skills in fabricating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billtwild Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 For a more definitive answer, we would need to know: - Where you live; change your profile to show where - What you can afford - Access to welding, tools, and fabricating equipment - Your skills in fabricating Thanks for the quick reply guys. I updated my profile but I will answer here as well. I live in a suburban town in southern NJ , just across the river from Philadelphia. Houses are close and yards are small , my lot is 100 x 50 ft. Its a working class neighborhood so on Saturdays and Sundays the sounds of people working on their houses , wood saws and lawn equipment are frequent. I certainly don't want to bother anyone so I was thinking of buying coke or charcoal to start. I do have a fence. I have a budget of $500 to start. I have no tools , no anvil and obviously no forge . Im sure that anything I purchase used will hold its value for at least the time it takes me to figure out if I like this (cant imange not) and if I am good at it (thats the REAL question for me) or if I DIY it that the monetary loss would not be significant. I figured forge $150 , anvil $150 an tools + misc items $200 . I have no welding tools and no fab equipment other than a few smal hand tools , drill, belt sander. Probably nothing of relevance to smithing. I was an automotive machinist for 10 years. ANything from cutting drums/rotots and flywheels to honing blocks and cutting cranks so I do have some of what I will call "grit time" with metal but not in any fabrication capacity. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 on the old keenjunk forum, a smith from Tx built a forge outa an upside down lawnmower body and a brake drum, the lawnmower body provided the work area. and the drum the firepot,I believe he cut a slot in the drum to allow work coming in the side of the fire pot. old heater motor for a blower. IIRC it'd doable in my opion unless you are trying to forge large stock. through some junk together, build forge, sell stuff you make, buy better forge. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 (edited) my first forge was a used bbq grill and a pipe with a 90 degree angle poured concret hearth. grill free, pipe free, and concret $3.00 made a bellows from scrap wood Free. took a few days but up and hammering in a week. The best advice anyone ever gave me was "just do it". 20 years later still doing it. my first purchases were an machinest vice with a flat plate on the back (used as an anvil) and a good cross peen hammer. Edited July 17, 2009 by Francis Cole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 yep what Francis, said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 My first fire pot was made from a steal car wheel/rim and worked fine, there is nothing wrong with using a brake drum. Given where you live you may want to think about a gas forge, just for the smoke and smell but if your stuck on a solid fuel forge I would suggest charcoal and since your not likely going to make your own then buy lump hardwood charcoal not the briquett's. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I made one from a fairly shallow brake drum and then made a sheet metal "fence" to sit right inside the walls, left the ends a bit apart so I could stick stock in and then cut a "mousehole in it opposite the gap and just over the wall of the drum to be able to slide long stock through. I used to use this for billet welding and it worked GREAT. If I wanted to work with stuff that wouldn't fit through the gap I could just pull the fence out and have a standard drum forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billtwild Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 My first fire pot was made from a steal car wheel/rim and worked fine, there is nothing wrong with using a brake drum. Given where you live you may want to think about a gas forge, just for the smoke and smell but if your stuck on a solid fuel forge I would suggest charcoal and since your not likely going to make your own then buy lump hardwood charcoal not the briquett's. welder19 Hey welder, good to see Piney around. Much of my youth was spent in Wharton and I still get to Mullica every winter for some pickerel fishing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billtwild Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 Thanks for the advice guys! So I went ahead and bid on a forge on EBay. Antique Portable Cast Iron Forge & Blower Blacksmith - eBay (item 300329190595 end time Jul-19-09 16:45:37 PDT) Its a bit higher than I wanted to spend but if I win it will get me started. It doesn't have a clinker breaker built in but it looks to be a good starting point. I only recently bothered to find out what a clinker breaker was. LOL. Oh well. If I lose this one Ill go ahead and build my own. I was looking at the Lively forge. Seems kinda cool. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I am trying to acquire a proper forge (without breaking the bank) A proper forge (in my opinion) is one that gets the metal hot enough to forge into the shape you desire. The metal does not care if it is a hole in the dirt or a high $ forge, the metal still gets hot. For the beginning blacksmith getting the metal hot is the first priority. Think of the first forge as a minimal investment of funds to get started. $20, a little scrounging of materials, some ingenuity and asking questions is about all you need at the beginning. Get some experience with hot metal while you do some research on what makes a better forge. NO ONE said you could only have one forge, so build a second forge that will be improved, different, of a specific design, etc. Then build an even better forge, one that is designed for the type work YOU do in blacksmithing. Like other tools, the blacksmith will choose which tool or forge works best for them and the project at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billtwild Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 The auction for that forge went too high for my tastes. I think Im going to do a lively forge style. Not sure about making adobe so Ill do a 70% portland / 30% sand mix for the base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason L Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Bill, forges can be made out of almost anything that can withstand the heat. The simplest forges are nothing but a hole in the ground with air supplied by people standing around the fire blowing through reeds at the fire. I started out using a brake rotor and a hand powered air mattress pump but I have since added to it and it works great. I've successfully forge welded in it and it's cobbled together with parts that would sound ridiculous to most. All the parts were free, scrounged from local sources. That being said, drums and rotors do work, but they can be aggravating since they hold very little fuel, there is not much room to work in, and it doesn't look very nice lol. I am building a new forge so the old one is officially retired right now. I'm welding a firepot together and hopefully will be done this afternoon. Then I just have to add a table and a reliable source of air and viola! The thing to remember is, all you need for a forge is something to hold the fire, some way to inject air into the heart of the fire, and something to bang on. Not a difficult concept on the face of it but sometimes a little tough to find all the parts. Take a trip to a local junkyard, mechanics shop, hardware store, and any other place you can find scrap metal that you can use. Here's a great video that gives some great info on the brake drum forge that might help you out... YouTube - Part one The Brake Drum Forge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Hey welder, good to see Piney around. Much of my youth was spent in Wharton and I still get to Mullica every winter for some pickerel fishing. There arn't too many blacksmith's left in this area, when I was a kid Batsto Village was a fully functioning historic village, revolutionary time period, with a opperating blacksmith shop and I used to go over there and just whatch the blacksmith for hours on end. Most kids want to be firemen, police, pilot, atronaut, etc. when they grow up...I wanted to be a blacksmith. It's a shame, Batsto went from a fully functioning historic village to almost a ghost town just because the state didn't feel it was worth the money, if our history and culture isn't worth spending money on then what is? Now they just spend enough money there to keep it from deteriorating away to nothing. If you spent any time here then you know where Batsto is, I live about 10 min away from there, next time your gonna be down this way send me an email or a pm and maybe we can meet up, it's always nice to find someone to talk blacksmithing with in person. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 Just a thought for you. I was checking on some prices at my local pottery clay supplier. They sell fire clay for $ 11.00 / 50 lb bag (dry) I've thought several times about going to my local Big lots (distressed merch) store for a flimsy SS bowl and claying the inside with pottery fire clay mixed with white sand. Totaly cost would be in the neighborhood of 20 bucks. The extra clay, because its dry will keep for the next time or serve a basis for making a differential hardening clay if you want to work with that later. Since I'm working with build a solid fuel forge my self I'm going to go in that direction. Charlotte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fat pete Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 the 55 forge rocks...i have seen it and worked on it live...its a cool thing and cant be any cheaper than a couple of sawzall blades an 2 steel drums....very simple and works excellent...the draft that is created by the drum on top with a little hair drier motor pushing air is phenomenal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billtwild Posted July 19, 2009 Author Share Posted July 19, 2009 Love the info guys! Thanks a ton! Keeps me excited! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orgtwister Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 welcome abored there billtwild fromthe shore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You already have some great answers there , but I'll throw my 2 cents worth in. Until I build my new forge I'll still be using my brake drum forge, it has served me well for 3 or 4 years now. I got it for free from a wreckers, it is a truck brake drum, about 11'' across and about 5'' deep it had bad rivet scores in it so it was pretty unsaleable as a brake drum. the only problem I find is that I don't have an area around it where I can have coke ready to rake in or the ability to build a high "bee hive'' shaped fire without the coals spilling over the sides. I found the main problem with making your own forge is finding a suitable blower especially if you live in town you don't want something that is going to upset the neighbors;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ian did you see my post about making a simple sheet metal "fence" that drops in the drum around the edges with a gap in the front and a mousehole across from it? Allows you to get a nice deep fire. I used mine for billet welding that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You would not purchase a standard high dollar fire pot and then use just the fire pot as the forge. You would put it in to a table of some sort. So, I do not understand the problem with using a break drum. Most brake drums have a ridge on the open end. This ridge is great for dropping into a slightly smaller hole and keeping the drum on top of the table hanging on the ridge. This would be the same arrangement that is used when the high dollar fire pot hangs on the top of the forge table. Build a forge table from whatever construction materials you have on hand that will not burn. Drop the break drum into the hole, and you should have ample room for coal, coke, and a couple of tongs depending on the size of your table. The other option Some break drums do not have a ridge on the outside but do have a groove on the inside of the drum. Bend some 1//4 x 1 flat bar or whatever fits into the groove in a circle that will fit into the groove. Weld this ring to the bottom of a forge table. When you make the stand to support the break drum, then set the table top onto the drum. You can then make supports for the table that attach to the stand. Just make the base of the stand wide enough so the forge does not tip over. Another option Dig a hole in the dirt and put the break drum into the hole. You can then pile coal, coke and tools as far and as wide as you wish, or until you get to the property line. To create a deeper fire, or a fire for a specific purpose, you can build a fence as Thomas suggested by using metal, bricks, or what ever material you have on hand that does not burn. Blacksmiths are problem solvers. Figure out what you want to do, or what will make your life easier, and build the thing. If you do not want to bend over, or squat to work a forge that is a hole in the ground, dig a hole and stand in the hole. The next step would be to raise the hole AND the ground and put the whole thing on the top of a table. Next would be to use a side blown forge and eliminate the hole. Next would be to use a fire pot instead of the hole in the ground and drop the fire pot into a hole in the table. And the modifications and improvements can go on until YOUR satisfied. After all it is YOUR forge. The attached photo shows a break drum forge that is 13 inches in diameter with a work table (ring setting in the groove attachment) on top. Notice the rust ring from the 55 gallon drum head that is used as a rain cover. It will show scale as to the size of the table top and work space. The table top usually has cinder blocks stacked underneath either side of the table, that are not shown in the photo. These cinder blocks with a piece of metal or wood is added, form an additional work table to either side. The cut out in the back was for the smoke hood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Here is an example of a simple forge that works wellArrowhead Tutorial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBrann Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Most of us do what we can with what we have. I would get a blower for an oil burner, and pipe it with an air gate to the tyrere. My forge is a wood frame with a cast iron plate with a hole in it. Sheet metal around the edges, total cost about $60 US. My father and I have a saw mill so lumber is "free" The plate came from a wood stove that was in the dump. The $60 US was for a 2" Tee, short nipple, long nipple, plug and flange, some 1/4 inch bolts, and a bucket of refractory cement. If you look at smithys for the name "cbrann" you'll see mine covered with snow. Remember you can always build another forge, improve the design as you forging gets better. My first forge was a paint can, 2nd a brake drum (from a dump truck) forge that may dad still uses, 3rd a small break drum forge, and 4th my present wood and iron forge. Each one was better than the last. just my .02.... good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanR Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Ian did you see my post about making a simple sheet metal "fence" that drops in the drum around the edges with a gap in the front and a mousehole across from it? Allows you to get a nice deep fire. I used mine for billet welding that way. Thomas, thank you to you and Glenn for your pointers, I guess I will pay more attention to what I am posting next time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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