Asking For The Experts

[Rattlecat]

As you probably can guess, I'm new here, and completely new to blacksmithing. If I told you what got me into wishing I was, you'd laugh at me, or at least roll your eyes and ask me to spend my time elsewhere. But honestly, I'm a bit of a stubborn fool.

I've always been a fan of the crafts. Art, woodworking, jewelcrafting, welding; the problem is the assumptions. The assumptions from those very skilled in the trade thinking newbies are just looking for instant gratification, and the assumptions from the newbies thinking they'll -get- their reward the first day. I can't be like that, I've realized every craft takes skill and some talent to excel. It's no fast food restaurant.

I come here, because for two weeks now I've been searching through websites over many hours, looking for a traditional and modern blacksmith. Being a fan of the old, yes, I want to make swords and shields and weapons. I am your 'It looks cool in Fable and Warcraft, why not try it?" type of person.

But I want to make something out of it. I want to be able to excel in craftsmanship regarding those weapons. Not just show I can make your typical blade, but give it improvements and personal touches. I realize the work is hard, and I realize that many people, especially with inspirations like mine, go into it thinking they'll be the greatest and no one's opinion or advice is good enough for them. On both sides, they go home disappointed, irritated, or aggravated.

I want to be practical. I'm looking for someone in my area, that has the traditional blacksmith in them, the one seeking an apprentice to pass skills onto, the one who doesn't laugh when you walk in saying you want to create horseshoes and swords, and the one who wants to make something out of someone using their knowledge. I truly want to get into this craft, whatever the reason I choose to do it for.

I just need someone as willing as I am to help lead me in the right direction.

[David Einhorn]

My humble advice is not to mention sword making if you want to be taken seriously. *Lots and lots* of people approach smiths saying that they want to make swords. In our experience individuals that announce that they want to make swords don't seem to have the dedication to spend the time developing their blacksmithing skills. First spend some time with basic forging skills, then spend a bunch of years mastering knife making. Then only if you really have developed your skills will you make a decision whether sword making is for you.

Also, if you want information, you will need to add your location to your profile. We can not advise if we don't know where you are.

If you mention sword making you are not likely to get laughed at, just ignored.

You can find a discussion on apprenticeships and some comments on at:
http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f7/apprenticeship-12592/

You can find information how to make a museum quality sword as your first project: S0001 Making Magical Swords | Stories 000-100

Edited July 15, 2009 by UnicornForge

[Charlotte]

Given the general tenor of you post I think you may profit from joining Society for Creative Anachronism, Inc. They have many craft related activities and are among the most frequent purchasers and users of sword and armor. Blades can be made without a forge and anvil. In fact, the actual creation of a blade only begins with the forged blank.

You may want to review the following thread before going further> http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f52/everyone-thinking-making-sword-11310/

[Thomas Dean]

Howdy from East TEXAS!! and welcome to IFI!
Ok... I'll bite....where are you?? Some guessing games are fun but this one is too big of a challenge;) You want someone in your area but we don't know where that area is! This planet is an awfully big place and there is someone here on IFI in just about every state, provence, country, and island on this planet, we just need to know where you are. If you will go to the green bar at the top of the page and click on "User CP" and update your profile stating you location it will help. We can also give you help in locating the proper tools you will need. Find a blacksmith group near you and join, they do like having newbie and are will to help. Most groups have bladesmiths and some groups are totally bladsmiths. Good luck. If you are in the USA you can go here to find a group in your area. [ABANA] The Artist Blacksmith's Association of North America

[ThomasPowers]

May I ask you to seriously consider attending classes at the American Bladesmith Society School near Texarkana AR?

As to "traditional" how traditional? 100 years ago, 1000 years ago? (big changes after 1856 (Bessemer/Kelly), 1700's (Abraham Darby), high middle ages (use of coal instead of charcoal), around year 1000 (better steel/catalan forge, etc) , etc in the production of metal and smithing...)

May I commend to your attention "The Complete Bladesmith, The Master Bladesmith, The Pattern Welded Blade" for learning modern methods. Learn the "easy" ways first!

Then on to studying earlier times "The Sword in Anglo-Saxon England (pay no attention to the appendix on pattern welding, it's been superseded by more recent research), "The Celtic Sword", "The Knight and the Blast Furnace"---focuses on the metallurgy of armour but that ties in with the metallurgy of swords used against it!

If you live in the USA and do not have a public library card and know how to use Inter Library Loan---shame on you!

Edited July 16, 2009 by ThomasPowers

[Rattlecat]

Thank you all for the generous replies, I honestly appreciate them.

I do understand that when I state I want to make swords and shields, I -will- be laughed at. After all, blacksmiths were more then just creators of war weapons. Blacksmithing is an art in itself, and being an artistic sort of person, I respect them greatly.

I can tell you I am willing to do this, whatever time it takes, whatever hard work must be endured. I'm willing to toss everything I have (minus the computer, clearly.) in order to move wherever necessary to get an apprenticeship, or any form of studying done regarding traditional blacksmithing. I've done many things in my life, and nothing has constantly held my attention like blacksmithing.

I live in Pennyslvania, currently with my parents after being medically separated from the USAF. (My hip decided to dislocate itself temporarily). Fayetteville, PA specifically. My current friend helping me on my blacksmithing search lives in Texas, and having been there for Basic, it's the least of my worries to prevent me from learning. I am willing to move anywhere in the US to find this profession, and learn it.

Regarding traditional blacksmithing, I'm trying to lean away from the use of modern machinery to do the work for me. -I- want to do the work. I want it to be my sweat and blood that goes into every piece of work. I've attended a welding class in my old high school business academy, and watching a machine do everything while you ensure it does everything is nice, but it takes away from the true craftsmanship. You can teach your hands to do everything, but it takes skill in other crafts to teach a machine to do it.


From what I can tell, the majority of you welcoming me happen to live in Texas with your craft, and if I have to go there to learn it, then by all means. I will!

[Rob Browne]

Before you go moving off across the country I would suggest that you try to find the local group of blackmiths in your area. In the US you are blessed with quite a network of blacksmiths that is not replicated anywhere else on the planet so use it wisely. Join up and go to as many activities and courses as you can. Build your basics steadily then move up. Standard advice to anyone starting out in any craft.

Good luck

[thingmaker3]

Maybee you should speak to these folk: PABA

[Rattlecat]

Thanks for the quick replies and the sound advice. I'll continue my search tonight. :3

[Thomas Dean]

Aw man, don't let a few miles stop you from coming to TEXAS! You are certainly welcome but seriously there are some excellent groups in your area that you can learn and work with. Like I mentioned in my first post, check out ABANA and find a group near you. But if ya just gotta move....I'm east of Dallas about 120 miles and my shop is always open. I do have a day job at a major chemical plant and blacksmithing is, at the moment, a paying hobbie. LORD willing tho, in about 3 years I hope to do it more full time!

Thank you for your service to our Nation. I appreciate your sacrifice.

[Rattlecat]

Mm. Would have been more of a service if one of my wingmen hadn't sent me to the hospital -.-. I was getting shipped to California too.

Alas.



So. I may still come to Texas. But in the meantime, this is something that's been the "humor" of my pals lately ever since I started my search. They just can't seem to imagine any chicks in the blacksmithing business. Should I prove them wrong? :D

[jimmy seale]

welcome to IFI. B/S is an addiction for which there is no cure. good luck on your endeverse's be safe and read what's here and ask questions,jimmy

[Thomas Dean]

this is something that's been the "humor" of my pals lately ever since I started my search. They just can't seem to imagine any chicks in the blacksmithing business. Should I prove them wrong?

By your last statement are we to assume you are female? If so you will be in supurb company! One of our past presidents of ABANA is a lady. Check out this site to see another lady smith Lorelei Sims. There are several fantastic ladies already here on IFI that are wonderful smiths. So yes, do join them, you will be most pleased.

[Rattlecat]

I am indeed a lady. Well, a female at least. I can't say I'm a lady. I've got the attributes of males thanks to the Air Force, if not for my brother.

One of the biggest problems with people thinking I could be a blacksmith is my body entirely, not just being female. For one, I'm a bit chest heavy, and two, (don't laugh), I'm 4'10". No joke. Anvils have to be on the -floor- for me at this rate. XD. I don't want people to assume I adhere to a particular gender, such as an all-female group or an all-male group, but it is a bit awkward to see someone like me even thinking of entering a forge.

Aside from that, I probably wouldn't have any trouble learning the gist of blacksmithing. I'll definitely have to check out Lorelei's page, though!

[beth]

hi there sister! im a girl (im no lady either!) and all i can say is dont let ANYTHING put you off - good luck to you - and in my oppinion if you want to do swords then theres nowt wrong with saying you want to do swords! x

[Jymm Hoffman]

Fayetteville? Western PA?
Starting with basic forging is the right attitude. Ray Rybar has used me for this purpose when beginners approach him about making knives and swords.
Pittsburgh Area Artist Blacksmith Association Pittsburgh Area Artist-Blacksmiths Association event this weekend with traditional forging demonstrations at Steel Ornamental. I would be there if it were not for me doing generic public demos at Fort Ligonier this weekend for their 250th. Anniversary of the French attack on a redoubt.
I would also encourage you to take some courses at one of the craft schools, Touchstone Center for Crafts would be your closest. I plan to run one day courses again this winter in my shop.

[Rattlecat]

That sounds fantastic Jymm. I'd love to get some lessons from you, even just to watch. I know it's going to be a long-xxx road to getting into any finished products, but I'm honestly not interested in stopping. Blacksmithing has always fascinated me, and I'm just not interested in ignoring something that aggravates me day in and day out XD.

It's moreso southern/western PA, but yeah, we're about 2 hours from Gettysburg. Moved up from Clear Spring, MD. It's pretty xxxxxx boring out here, and honestly, we've got three sheds and two backyards I know I could fill with something far more interesting then grass.

[David Einhorn]

It's more so southern/western PA, but yeah, we're about 2 hours from Gettysburg. Moved up from Clear Spring, MD.

When I drive from Gettysburg, PA to Fayetteville, PA it only takes me about 30 minutes on PA Route 30. I measured the distance at 19 miles.

I highly recommend that you try to get to the monthly blacksmith meeting this coming Sunday 9am, lunch around noon and meeting at 1pm, at the Carroll County Farm Museum carrollcountyfarmmuseum.org in Westminster Maryland, where the Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland (BGCM), membership in the hundreds, will be having its monthly meeting at the blacksmithing school there. The school has eight coal forges, and the school's equipment, including knife-making grinders, are available for use on days of meetings and on open forge nights by people that join and sign the release form. Beginner classes are frequently held, you just have to check the schedule BGCM Classes and sign up for the class of interest. According to the website there are still five openings for the July 25-26 beginner class! Classes are also held periodically on knife making and pattern welding (Damascus).

I am a member of both PABA and BGCM and the latter is closer to where you live. I see no need to move to a different part of the country just to learn bladesmithing. I have no doubt that you will be invited to the shops of multiple knifemakers, in the BGCM guild, to assist you to learn the craft.

If you come to the meeting you will meet at least one female smith, see knives, meet knife makers, and likely meet at least one person who is working their way through the American Bladesmith Society's program :D Edited July 16, 2009 by UnicornForge

[Avadon]

Thanks for the quick replies and the sound advice. I'll continue my search tonight. :3

You may find classes just to your liking. Personally i'm a DIY'er, builder, and solo act. I'm not much for classes, schools, universities, etc. I like to teach myself, read, learn, find web articles, and occasionally drive people on here nuts picking their brains on how "they did that". This site is an excellent resource. I too wound my way here out of necessity when i wanted to know how to make things like forming/hardy stakes, specialized welding processes, make steel anvil stands, make blademaking anvils, make knives, etc. Ideally I'm after the same thing you are... fantasy/artistic styled blades and armour work similar to the stuff you see in movies, online games, WoW, Everquest, etc. Oddly enough I have no desire to recreate history which bugs some people because thats what they would do if they had my tools. But I have a thirst for creating what hasn't been seen and as a professional artist I've always had the drive and inclination towards this.

May I also suggest to you two other invaluable resources? I suggest making accounts on armourarchive and also Bladesmith's Forum as you will find these two other sites additionally helpful regarding blade and armour making questions. There are also a host of female armourers on armourarchive to address questions you may have their regarding fit, cutomizations, fighting technique (if you ever do SCA), etc. There is also of course a knife and sword making forum here on IFI.

If your into engraving or extreme detail on your work you may also want to check out this site The Engraver's Cafe . I generally spend half my time here and half my time on armour archive.

You'll probably spend the first few months just learning what 'you' want to do, where you want to start, and what tools you'll need. Blades? General blacksmithing? Armouring? and then proceed to setting up a decent work shop with the tools specific for that job. Sounds like you live out in the country which is actually a blessing once you start making some noise and smoke. One thing I did when I started to realize I was gonna get serious was start bringing in all the tools from the far corners of my belongings as well as start asking others if they had any tools they didn't want or need in my family/friends circle. Starting to get a good base of what you have readily accessible doesn't hurt.

It's going to be a long path but it will be exciting, fun, and challenging. Welcome aboard. :D Edited July 16, 2009 by Avadon

[David Einhorn]

The classes with the Blacksmith Guild of Central Maryland are excellent. You will learn in one weekend more than you would by experimenting on your own for months. Just my opinion, but an opinion that I have formed over more than 35 years as a hobby smith.

I found classes *extremely* helpful, especially to:
1) get started
2) learn about knifemaking
3) learn forge welding
4) learn tool making, hardening and tempering
5) learn about making pattern-welded knife blades (sometimes referred to as Damascus).
6) learn about safety

You would also have the opportunity to try out equipment to see if you like it. I once made the mistake of buying an Arc Welder prior to taking a course, and afterward I looked forward to it breaking so that I could purchase a different one.

Edited July 16, 2009 by UnicornForge

[Rattlecat]

*points accusingly at Unicorn* You were the first one to visit my page when I arrived on this forum.

I have trouble talking to people though. I tend to get nervous when I get into something new, because for some reason, everyone expects you to already have studied and know a good load of things before you even step into their territory. Too use to college entries, I guess. That and my mother's bad habit of finding it highly amusing if I take on something that seems 'way out of my league'. I feel more comfortable when someone's guiding me or helping me out in choosing what would work best, and then I go from there.

I also lack a car. My fiance and I are so close to everything that we just walk. It's good exercise, and it helps stress relief when we're stuck in the house for too long. My mother has a seperation anxiety issue, so she has this really big thing about me, her youngest, going off without her exact knowledge of who I'm with, and where. Pretty pitiful for a 20 year old with a fiance, huh? :/

I can definitely try to make it. The only thing preventing us would be my mother's sicknesses which can leave her bedridden. Aside from that, any advice on a budget of cash to bring to such events? I know blacksmithing can be ferociously expensive regarding proper equipment once you know what's needed. Don't have many blacksmithing friends nor family members, so the only thing I'm riding along with is me, my fiance, and this forum's assistance so far.

Maybe it's better just to attend, watch, and learn before I decide to start investing. I'm already sure this is what I want to do, but I should still take it a step at a time.


Thanks for the welcome Avadon, I already love the cohesiveness the members have here. I've been in the artist community for so long, it's pretty hard to adjust to the fact everyone accepts everyone's skill level. If you've ever traveled to Deviantart, you'll know the higher talent gets all the respect. If you can't match them, you aren't going to get noticed, let alone supported.

This place has already become my homepage, so let's see what just happens!

(Forgive me for my extremely long and overly sentimental posts. If you can't tell from these and the other post I made in this section, I'm -very- big on writing. Everything inspires me, and I never can seem to say enough to make up for the feelings. XD)

[David Einhorn]

*points accusingly at Unicorn* You were the first one to visit my page when I arrived on this forum.

I visited your profile, before you said you were female, to see if you were a kid or an adult so as to better understand who we were trying to assist, and to tailor answers accordingly. I often check peoples profiles in the hope of tailoring answers.

My mother has a separation anxiety issue,

There are several mental health clinics in Gettysburg. The Adams County MHMR office would likely pay for visits if she has low income.

Aside from that, any advice on a budget of cash to bring to such events?

You don't need to bring any money. Coming to the meeting is free. Talking to smiths and bladesmiths is free. Lunch is potluck, if you want to bring a dish or desert that is your option. Access to equipment area is limited to members because of liability issues.

I know blacksmithing can be ferociously expensive regarding proper equipment once you know what's needed.

Starting off you can use the equipment at a club, museum, or friend. The president of the Thadeus Steven's society said, about a week or so ago, that they are looking for someone to demonstrate at the Thadeus Steven Blacksmith shop down the street from you. Smiths (other than myself, I guess) can also guide you in low cost smithing, the BGCM sells bags of coal at cost.

Maybe it's better just to attend, watch, and learn before I decide to start investing. I'm already sure this is what I want to do, but I should still take it a step at a time.

BGCM and PABA and its members welcomes visitors to its meetings. There is no cost and no commitment. You are welcome to bring your fiance and your mother to anywhere you go.

As you appeared ready to fly or move to Texas, I extrapolated that you were ready to drive down the road to learn about the craft.

[Thomas Dean]

....If you've ever traveled to Deviantart, you'll know the higher talent gets all the respect. If you can't match them, you aren't going to get noticed, let alone supported.

This place has already become my homepage, so let's see what just happens!

(Forgive me for my extremely long and overly sentimental posts. If you can't tell from these and the other post I made in this section, I'm -very- big on writing. Everything inspires me, and I never can seem to say enough to make up for the feelings. XD)

Have you seen the work by "dogbreathsoup" on Deviantart? He's a friend of mine and does some great work. I'm not a member there but will check in every 6months or so.... And I tend to agree with you about the attitude there...

[Rattlecat]

You don't have to worry, Unicorn. My birthday's coming up in a month though. I'm a bit of a childish adult, if such a thing exists anymore.

It's been well known my mother has separation problems, but she thinks of it more as a motherly thing, versus an actual problem. Due to medication her mother took to abort her, she became chemically imbalanced by genes and just outright organs. Migraines every time there's a rainstorm, throws up when they start at the back of her neck, that sort of thing. Three strokes and counting. She'd have to be mentally insane before she checks in, or gets checked into a hospital willing to 'solve the problem'.

I've got the same issues genetically as well, but...don't worry. I can definitely handle my stress issues far better then she can.

I'm most definitely interested in going where I need to to learn about the craft. Honestly, I'd rather be anywhere then here. My doctor's stated it's actually -added- to my 'depression', the lack of things to do here, or at least things to get into. Like I said, not many are so willing to help guide you into starting a craft of any sort from what I've experienced. :/ But as long as I've got assistance, and a place to go, then yes. I'm most definitely willing to go where necessary, even if it means right down the road or across the nation.


Thomas: I just checked out dogbreathsoup's page. Definitely watching him now. My page is rattlekitten. You'll mostly find writings, some drawings, and other random objects that have amused me as of late. It's upsetting to know that because of the attitude towards 'good-looking' art, and the lack of a good definition, people like Dog don't get to the front page. It shouldn't matter what medium you work with, if you're a master at the craft, you deserve to be on that front page. Instead, all we get are nothing but fangirls favoring the most popular mainstream media of the week. Everything's popularity, popularity, popularity. If not that, then money. There's rarely people into it for the challenge, let alone the art anymore.

[Glenn]

I know blacksmithing can be ferociously expensive regarding proper equipment once you know what's needed. Don't have many blacksmithing friends nor family members, so the only thing I'm riding along with is me, my fiance, and this forum's assistance so far.

"Someone" on this forum had a signature that read Tool do not make the blacksmith, the blacksmith makes the tools.

If you must have a warehouse of the latest and greatest tools in order to be a blacksmith, then better not tell that to the third world blacksmiths that have little more than a hole in the dirt and a metal object to pound on. Somehow they manage to make some rather nice products.

May I suggest IForgeIron.com > Blueprints > BP0133 55 Forge for an easy to build forge that should cost only a small amount of time and money to build. May I suggest IForgeIron.com Metalworking Lessons > Lessons in Blacksmithing for some background information as to what is needed to get started.

Touchstone Craft Center, and Peters Valley Craft Center are both somewhat close to your location.

Your determination and imagination can serve you well and far exceed those that have a larger stature but lack a burning desire for the craft.