how does one forge a "T" backed blade? i imagine it is simply upset in a vise or something like that.:confused:

There is a long list of things that I've never heard of. A "T" backed blade would be one of them. Could you post some info on them? I'm not trying to be cute. That's just a new one for me. Educate me.

I have not heard of one either but can picture in my mind what he is referring to.

I can picture it in my mind. I just don't know why you would want to do it.

Same reason you'd use a fuller: increased rigidity with minimal increase in mass. (Well, OK: with a fuller you're going for reduced mass with minimal loss of rigidity. But they're two sides of the same coin.)

Oriental-Arms: Large Choora / Khyber Knife, Afghanistan

Edited June 14, 200916 yr by MattBower

They are out there, thing Causcus (sp) region, Turkey---middle east-central asia.

Since vises are pretty recent I'd go with a set of swages (top and bottom).

Perhaps the eminent purple flower of gentility, JPH, will weigh in as I remember has had made them before.

Owen Bush in the UK was making a wootz 't' backed blade, I think he was discussing it on another forum with Ric Furrer. I cant remember the exact details, but I think the jist was to have the bottom (what will be the cutting edge) of the blade resting on a block in the vice, clamp it up then upset the 't' along the spine.

One think im sure of is your hammer skills and heat control would have to be **** near perfect to have a chance of success, especially when using 'exotic' materials!

Edited June 14, 200916 yr by mod07
language

Kevin Cashen showed some photos of a damascus cavalry saber he made with a t-backed blade on bladeforums a couple of years ago. Said that he made some special power hammer dies to forge it (actually them, the first one self destructed in the quench).

I cann't speak for real weapons but my fencing sabre had a T blade. It was one of a choice of styles. Girls weren't supposed to do sabre but I got my way:) Anyway, makes for more stiff near hilt. Favored by fencers with strong hands and shoulders.
You could throw more of your weight behind the blade and scare lighter opponets.
Worked pretty well at low levels, didn't phase anyone that knew what they were doing.

This bayonet has been around here for a long time don't know anything about it. Didn't know about this blade style more pics in the gallery.

I can't see teh upsetting method being all that helpful on a blade, though I'm happy to be proved wrong. I would think a set of fulering dies and a grinder would be more logical?

going to do a test blade soon and it will be started by slightly forging an edge bevel so it doesn't slide through the vise jaws, bring it to a yollow heat, chuck it in the vice and see if i can upset it. by the way, did i mention i was going to make a test piece? no? darn. got to remember to do that next time.

i think it will be an interresting project and it could add a lot of rigidity to an otherwise thin sword, like old scythe blades were bent to sort of an "L" cross section, and scythe blades are comparatively light i think. i bet you could use thinner metal and still get a strong blade. and why not grind it? well, i don't have too good of grinding skills compared to my forging ability. i wish i had a swage that could do it... oh well, maybe someday.

Swages can be made. A block of steel, a hand grinder, a cut off wheel. and a free afternoon.

But concider what other shapes the blade will have to go through to achieve that final.
How much pre bend is going to be needed.

hello everybody, the t spine is a characteristic of the turkish saber named kilic, but it can be found in other types of blades. i-am a beginner ''bladesmith'' and my experience with forging is limited, i order to give a blade a t spine-i believe-that is important to heat just the part of the blade you intend on ''t spine'' - the back of the blade. other than that i have no idea how to proceed on making a t spine.

Same reason you'd use a fuller: increased rigidity with minimal increase in mass. (Well, OK: with a fuller you're going for reduced mass with minimal loss of rigidity. But they're two sides of the same coin.)

Oriental-Arms: Large Choora / Khyber Knife, Afghanistan

Thanks for your information.

I think there is something in the water.I just had TWO seperate emails asking if I could make a pish qabz with a T backed blade!

I thikn I might have to say no, not yet. Makes me wonder if it's worth giving a go sometime though

Did anyone come up with a proven method of construction in the end?

Talk with James Hrisoulas; as I recall he's done them before.

I'll crawl out on the limb here,as a NOT a knifemaker,and forgive me if i make an ass of meself...

It seems to me that a solid block,3"-4",with a vertical saw-cut in it,will make a hardy hole bottom swage for the purpose.The depth of cut would equal the width of your blade,plus the amount intended for the upset.The slot for the blade can be forged to a wedge cross-section,to lessen the chance of peening the blade inside it,it can match the intended bevels on the blade.
Coal should do fine in giving one a plenty localised heat,plus the swage will be a heat-sink,very handy in any upsetting,and upsetting in a swage is sweet.
The top lips of the slot are radiused,of course,to the inside corners of the T.

Charlotte is correct in that making something along these lines would only take very little time and effort.An abrasive radial saw-cut,if you've access to one of proper thickness,and then a slender,tapered punch to wedge the groove out a bit.

All the best,Jake

P.S.I'd like to add that personally,i find upsetting against the pressure of the vise jaws annoying.Just doesn't feel right.Maybe my jaws are wore out and uneven.But the time lost in clamping,and the diminishing hold as the cooling steel shrinks,turn me off.
In my understanding,you,the knife-making folk,like to leave a certain thickness of the edge for subsequent HT and grind.
So,i believe that that thickness,as determined by the bottom of the groove,should provide enogh resistance to upset against.I could easily be wrong in all of the above,however.

have you thought of makinng a fuller only with two flat plates that can lie horozontaly whilst clamped in a vice. then you wolud start pice of steel the width of the 'T' and work the rest down.

It's looking like the upsetting of the spine is the favoured idea asking about (though I'm still waiting to get it from the horse's mouth, there are a few who have made theese recently).

Best options are the vise (not a big fan of that as I can see it getting cold quick and getting right on my nerves when it moves about!) or the wedge shaped slot bottom swage for supporting the blade. The only trouble I see there is the changing width/thickness of the blade from one end to the other and then the need to clean up my flats after the upsetting.

Rravan, I think a set of dies like that would be very handy for tidying up especiallly if I fit them to the flypress :D

I used to own 2 pesh Kabz, both were T backed and one had a reinforced tip to pierce mail armor that was favored at the time of manufacture. They are very nice knives, one on my list to make eventually (many years down the road mind you!) when I get more skill.

this is the swage i finally made and it works great so far. i would show a pic but my computer is stupid but oh well.sorry about quality, had to shrink the file to post it

Congratulations, it looks like a good tool. Keep us informed on your further adventures with it.