Glenn Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Sweany, look for Vulcan's Grill on the home page, IForgeIron.com (grin) Fe-wood mis-information is what we are trying to avoid on the site. Discuss a topic till your blue in the face, but please when it gets intense, site references to back up opinions so we can go to the source. If that source is 25 years of on the job experience, then that is one of the better references as it can be questioned in person and in greater detail. A book is only as good as the author and what he wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 Well, I told you the post could earn me some enemies! Listen, any person, young or old, can come to this site and ask a question. Someone will give them an answer, maybe several people will give answers. If you don't know the answer to the question you just asked, how do you sort out the legitimate answer from the nonsense? Don't we have some personal responsibility to try to share correct information? If the Internet just a big crapshoot where you can find fact and fiction on any given topic, what is going to set this site apart from the rest? I am not advocating we use forum goons to police the site and remove spurious posts, but there must be some way of identifying a credible source. Do we even begin to think of establishing some sort of hierarchy with distinguishing marks in the user name? More ideas needed here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chyancarrek Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 IFI is one is one of the more premium venues for free-exchanges of information that I've belonged to. The efforts of Glenn and his team of volunteers (kudos to you all!) to keep this forum civil, on topic and on track while still allowing the freedom to express ourselves is nothing short of outstanding (and rare) given the volume of traffic that exists here. What occurs here is no different than what any of us are presented with day in and day out in our lives - No matter the circumstance, you'll always find those who know, those who don't know and those who want you to believe that only they know. There will never be a shortage of folk (young & old) who will "ask first and look later" for answers to questions that have been covered "Ad Infi-nauseum". Let them be. They'll either come around to the natural workings of the community that they're trying to become part of or they will move on when the don't get an ongoing supply of "insta-facts" that fits their vision of what they want. Good information has a tendency to rise to the top - it seeks it's own level and becomes apparent by a process of self validation inherent in the quality of the discussion. Input from those who truly do know usually ends up outweighing the left-field solutions that are the mark of those who just want to see their words in print. Does it work that way every single time? No - but then life is like that - fortunately, more often than not it will self-right itself and the correct answers come through. You can't regulate validity in an open forum such as this. How would you go it? How do you vett one person's ability to contribute over another? Who would monitor it or set the standard that it is measured by? It's a wide open world - give when you can and gratefully accept what's offered when you ask. Then measure it yourself through your ongoing experiences. Being passionate about what you do and what you want to learn is probably the greatest tool for being able to sort the wheat from the chaff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Hammer Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Quenchcrack...."If the Internet just a big crapshoot where you can find fact and fiction on any given topic, what is going to set this site apart from the rest? I am not advocating we use forum goons to police the site and remove spurious posts, but there must be some way of identifying a credible source. Do we even begin to think of establishing some sort of hierarchy with distinguishing marks in the user name?" IF the internet is a big crapshoot??????? Of course it's just a big crapshoot, how can it be anything else. You can probably find any position on any topic on the internet, from ridiculous to factual. As far as declaring a credential, that's a crapshoot too. I know professionals with 20 years of experience where their value is no more than a yearly repeat of their first year of experience. I know young and old folks with hardly a year's experience in their areas of interest that I would gladly take advice from. The proof of value of anyone is their product, or the product of the advice they give. I don't think it's all that difficult to find a good answer, as long as it's in the fray somewhere. When someone gets miffed because more than one viewpoint is solicited, it says something about both parties, and I would favor asking for multiple viewpoints. Anyone who thinks the only valid answer is theirs is not someone I want advice from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 Well, I told you the post could earn me some enemies! Listen, any person, young or old, can come to this site and ask a question. ... I am not advocating we use forum goons to police the site and remove spurious posts, but there must be some way of identifying a credible source. Do we even begin to think of establishing some sort of hierarchy with distinguishing marks in the user name? More ideas needed here..... When I first read this thread it kinda ticked me off...after reading more I'm starting to warm up to what your advocating. from above I would say a good start would be for everyone to use their given name. from there a click on the name would display your bio ...I know it does this now but it does take several more key clicks to display it all. maybe add your profession below your name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 thaniks alot Glen. now I'M REALLY HUNGRY! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 (edited) what about the poster than not only reposts the same question all over this site even HI-jacking others threads, with proof that he wont even read reply's to his own post, is his asking the same thing over and over again, days or weeks later. One person suggested we ignore what we don't like, easy to do ya think? How many posts are being made each day? It is over 150 lately and its growing, with only 4 or 5 posts being mislabeled each day or posted in places no one would think to look for that topic, its harder to search through, as only 4 per day is 120 in only a month. If staff ignored those posts, or mistyped URL's or a improper photo posted in the gallery, we may as well remove ALL sub sections and only have the one Blacksmith topic in the forum with everything thrown together. Because that is how a few members insist on posting here now, so we relocate them to organized areas. But even then, we have been accused of deleting a persons post, when they refused to notice the redirect memo that is normally left behind to show a post was moved. Yes sometimes a post does get lost, and I am very sorry for those I have messed up, I correct what I can soon as I am notified of it. When I have to spend an hour or more a day relocating or correcting, mistakes can happen. Also if they were thinking when they first posted, we would not have had to try to relocate or correct it in the first place. We try to keep things organized so people can sort through the nearly 9,000 members and their over 110,000+ posts here, Maybe some like the idea of a library as a large pile of books, most people I know like having some order so they can find things. Either we staff try to get things orderly or we Ignore them and let chaos reign, cant have it both ways. The start of order is asking members to help. Edited May 20, 2009 by steve sells typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 ........ But even then, we have been accused of deleting a persons post, when they refused to notice the redirect memo that is normally left behind to show a post was moved... where is this memo left I've never seen one. Is it just to the poster? I would think you could solve this problem by putting a line in the post itself stating why and where it was moved to so everyone who reads it gets the message ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 they have a MOVED: tag and a relay to the new location. Left there as a redirect for a week or so. you have not seen it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 When a post is redirected, the old post for instance (*Hi I am new to IFI* in the blacksmithing section) is now labeled *moved*. When clicked, the link goes to the new location (in the introduce yourself section). After the period of time, the redirect expires and the post is located in the proper section. One reason the IForgeIron site is so easy to read is that the admins and mods move things to where it is easier to find. They split off hi-jacked threads and use the hi-jack to start a new thread keeping both threads now making sense to the viewer. URL's are checked to see that they actually work and go where they are suppose to go. Large over sized photos are reduced in size and attached to the posts. If a topic or discussion gets heated, more attention is given to that thread so it stays within the site guide lines. Only on rare occasions are references requested in order to stabilize a discussion. All this site maintenance takes time and gives IForgeIron a clean *look.* As the viewer is no longer distracted, they can now read the material presented and concentrate on the content of that material. This in turn makes the questions with little content that would normally go unnoticed, now stand out big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbob Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 (edited) they have a MOVED: tag and a relay to the new location. Left there as a redirect for a week or so. you have not seen it ? I have seen the "moved" but not the to where to or why....from what Glenn is saying its transparent. Edited May 20, 2009 by jimbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fe-Wood Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 :DMy hats off to all the people monitering and maintaining IFI. I have said this before and will say it again. Of all the sites I have been involved in, this one is the best/easiest to use. Very supportive too:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 (edited) What is unclear about the word MOVED ? as for why, an anvil posted in, example, cold worked metal, should be clear on its own to why it was moved to the Anvils section, if not, is that person really observant enough to be trusted working near hot iron On a more serious note, its a waste of time to write the obvious for moving things. We are too busy already and don't need to look for more work to do. Edited May 20, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andgott Posted May 20, 2009 Share Posted May 20, 2009 I don't post much here, but I read- and ABSORB- all kinds of information. There is an incredible pool of talent here to learn from, people with twice as many years blacksmithing as I have walking the earth! And, the range of talent is impressive, too. There are, as you'll find anywhere, a few who seem to insist on posting though they really clearly have no clue what they are doing and no 'real world' experience, But as mentioned before there are all too many 'old salts' here with BS detectors so finely tuned that these posts are challenged right away. I have to say that this site is VERY well moderated- And that is not an easy job, especially for a group of volunteers. I moderate on another (art related) site- A MASSIVE one (six figure registrations, but probably about 20k or so 'active'), and just the day to day 'cleanup' can be, at times, overwhelming. Those who have not been in the shoes of a forum moderator really can't appreciate the work and commitment involved in such a task. If everyone read this first, it could make life a LOT easier for all- Especially the mods. Think before you post- You might just find it refreshing -Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted May 20, 2009 Author Share Posted May 20, 2009 I like JimBob's idea of using real names and a place in our biography where we can put our education and experience. That is clearly the easiest way to check someone's credibility. Unless they lie about it on the bio. Well, nothing is perfect. Glenn, I want to be the first to revert back to my real name please: Robert K. Nichols Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 That would be easiest done by adding your name to your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvillain Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I'm with you Quenchcrack (although I really think your alias is neat). I'm more than willing to give up my name as "Anvillain" (I got tired of it years ago) and become Richard Stephens. I would also put a little more info on my experience (as if someone really gives it a thought). Here is a question for Glenn or any moderators or administrators: If I change this in my profile, will I automatically find previously posted pix or comments as before, or would I need to just sign up as a new user? I'd kind of like to keep my small amount of material except for the name. Anvillain aka Richard Stephens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welder19 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I don't think using your real name is all that important but listing your location is very helpful, for others and yourself, no one is looking for a street address and zipcode but state and vicinity of the state is good, ex. Southern Ohio or Northern California. It's only to be helpful, no one is looking to come hunt you down or stalk you. I may not use my real name but I do pretty much use the same name on all the forums I am registered to. welder19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 You can change your profile without it affecting your message count, the basis for the whole new member, member, senior member thing. I just put my real name in my "bio". It doesn't allow enough words to say much though. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quenchcrack Posted May 21, 2009 Author Share Posted May 21, 2009 Glenn, I will make the necessary changes, thanks. That's one small step, though. I am still not sure what we can do as a group to minimize mis-information. I guess we just need to be vigilant and challenge the nonsense when we see it. But politely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Maybe the mods could read each post before it is posted and then return it to the postee for correction and clarification. that should keep out the undesirables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 (edited) LOL Sweany Please go back and read post #32 in this thread. I have a better idea, how about People proof read their OWN posts before hitting the enter key? also correctly placing them in the sections of the forum will help too, rather than just posting everything in general blacksmithing? But since they wont do it, we have to. We do understand the new member needing time to find things and understand the site, they are given breaks. That is why there is a tag for Jr., Reg., and Sr. members. When a member has over 100 posts, they are tagged Senior Member and are expected to know a little about smithing and this site. Even when that number of posts is reached in a very short time, we assume since they have so much to say here, that they should know something. I am Dyslexic, and because of that a typo king. I have to correct my own posts a bit also. Mostly I think people rush on to the next item at hand, not thinking about checking themselves. Many times all I have to do is correct a single letter or character mistyped in a URL to get it working, or re size a photo for an edit to a members post, and there is a tag showing when and who edited a post, like the one I added at the bottom of this post. Also we Private message people if there is a real problem. After a few of those posts getting no reply, we are forced to state the problem publicly in the forum to insure they get the message. So we do not try to embarrass every member that makes a mistake in a post. There is a lot more going on behind the computer screens than most members imagine. I am sorry when I have gotten short about this, but I average over an hour a day just with my job here, add in the time of the15 or so other mods, and admins, and you might get a start understanding the massive amount of labor hours just to keep this place running smoothly. I get upset when people with hundreds of posts force more free work on me, mainly because they refuse to try. Many of the "problem" posters are the same 2 or 3 people every day, and after a month or so of playing Mother to them, I really do want to make them stop. Edited May 21, 2009 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 LOL Sweany Please go back and read post #32 in this thread. I have a better idea, how about People proof read their OWN posts before hitting the enter key? also correctly placing them in the sections of the forum will help too, rather than just posting everything in general blacksmithing? But since they wont do it, we have to. We do understand the new member needing time to find things and understand the site, they are given breaks. That is why there is a tag for Jr., Reg., and Sr. members. When a member has over 100 posts, they are tagged Senior Member and are expected to know a little about smithing and this site. Even when that number of posts is reached in a very short time, we assume since they have so much to say here, that they should know something. I understand your thinking here but posting to a thread saying ..." Cool, wish I had one of those. Nice truck. How much are apples where you live? Did you get any rain yesterday?" has nothing to do with knowledge of ANY skill...other than typing:). But the member can rack up his number of post count real quick and the become a "RESPECTED SENIOR MEMBER" as he now would have the magic number of posts. YEE HAA! I'm a senior member now and folks will listen to what I have to say. (There's that tongue-n-cheek thing again;) ) Not real sure how, or even if it is possible, to have a different rating system. I have but an "ignore this member" tag on one particular member simple because of his silly posts. I haven't seen him is several months BTW. My $.000002 worth, that and a $1.50 can get you a cup of coffee...somewhere. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Steve yep its a joke. General discussion in most forums is exactly what THOMAS DEAN posted about above. Imagine my confusion when things get subdivided. Lets divide ever body into catergories, newbie, journeyman and mastersmith. me I'll stay with the newbies* * The more I learn the less I know. live and let live. Does this thread actually belong in Blacksmithing general discusion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweany Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 I read post #32 what did that have to do with the original post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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