Frosty

I doubt it's a press die, no relief. I'm betting it's a cut off from a turning. It will make a handy thing for forming on, rings or curved flanges/lips.etc. Maybe shine it up and use it to keep drawings on the bench. I'd put it somewhere I could find it, something it's good for will occur, bet on it. The bug's got you, you're already picking up likely looking steel. Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard Sebastian, glad to have you. You're not the only young man who wants to be able to do things with your hands. The Alaskan organization has recently met such a young man. He's an IT in training but never used hand tools and wants to learn. It's a good thing. As powerful a tool as a computer is it still isn't the same as being able to make THINGS with your own two hands. Once the blacksmithing bug has bitten you you won't be able to look at things or go places without seeing how things were made and think about how you'd do it. Heck, go camping and find a rusty old hunk of steel, next thing you know you'll be forging pokers, toasting forks, log hooks, etc. etc. in the fire. Few things are as satisfying as turning some discarded rusting to nothing piece of . . . stock into something useful and or beautiful with nothing but your imagination a few hand tools and a fire. There's a good reason we call the craft an addiction. It's a lifelong learning curve and a grand experience. Enjoy the ride. Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard Sean, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you'll find there are probably lots of the IFI gang within visiting distance. I don't have much to add to the advice already given. The craft isn't magic, it's knowledge and practice. Both have to be good, a thoroughly practiced mistake is still a mistake. When planishing below red heat don't spend a lot of time at it or you will hammer more stress into the steel than it can endure. There's also a good chance you won't be able to planish out marks if your hammer control is leaving bad ones. Another thing about control is exactly what control means. It's about the person holding the tools, not the tools. Tools are just highly refined dirt, without a human directing them they're as innanimate as a stone. The steel will communicate with you through feel, mostly in the holding hand but through the hammer too, it also sings it's song to you, you have to train your ear to hear the music. Your eyes are actually only the targeting and result feedback system. You're ears will tell you more about the steel's forging status than color, you can HEAR when it's time to stop forging and start planishing and more importantly when planishing is going to do damage. You'll feel these states mostly in your holding hand but also through the hammer, pay attention, the steel will tell you what you have to do next to get it to do what you want next. As has been said a number of times,learning to read the shine tells you more about the results of the last blow than most anything else. The steel will SHINE briefly where the hammer struck, watch for it, it'll allow you to analyze cause and effect. I'm not saying color isn't important, it's very important but you need to know what it's saying. the lower the carbon content the hotter you want to forge it. Higher carbon content is more susceptible to overheating so it works better cooler. However too cool and it can be like hitting a ceramic cup with a hammer. It's in the fine changes in state where your ear will tell you the critical states and timing. Making leaves is good bladesmithing practice, just make them double beveled and smooth as a real leaf. Sure it isn't a knife blade but well made requires the same techniques and practices. Want to make blades right off? Make grass blades, much harder than leaves but you'll learn to control curvature. Mild steel moves easier but mistakes are made more easily too so you'll be able to correct your technique faster and with less expensive material. Frosty The Lucky.

Si Rojogrande, some seemingly simple questions turn into really complex things. I don't know of a website that'd give you current steel prices near you, Heck, here either though I haven't looked. The best I can offer your, actually pretty simple question, is ask the guys you buy from what their current price /lb. is. The references I suggested will tel you the weight/ft (usually) and it's up to you to put the multiplier into a calculator. When using scrap you must factor in cleanup or it'll cost YOU more than new. Learning to bid YOUR style and product correctly is a must if you're going to run in the black. There's no easy way to do it, one formula works great in one shop but is a door closer in others. I don't know if it's true now but used to be the #1 reason for manufactory failures was blowing bids, sometimes just one bid. A long term way to analyze your bid technique is pretty simple. If you get every job you're charging too little, if you don't get any you're charging too much. Fixing it can be a real clyncher though, maybe the shop isn't fast or good enough, maybe it's just TOO good. It's easier than one may think to produce too well finished products. For instance putting a high polish on a product that'll get painted or buried behind bushes, etc. is a poor move. Frosty The Lucky.

Not too surprising Bryan. An educational channel in . . . Fairbanks!. <snicker> If your provider is as efficient as the one here you just can't believe the online listing, heck you can't even count on it to be wrong. PBS has been advertising it between shows for a couple days now, might give it a gander. I'm keeping my fingers crossed airing hasn't been messed up here. After the airing you should be able to download it off the PBS website. I have a number of Nova and Woodwright's Shop episodes but not the really early ones when Roy was at Williamsburg and working on projects with Peter Ross. Ironing the log sledge was a favorite of mine from years back. <sigh> Frosty The Lucky.

Jim: I'm familiar with different general plans of floor layout. the old school Kitchen type, keeping everything within a short distance of the fire while leaving a person enough room to move. Production shop layouts as well, Father's shop flowed from the roll up door into the stock storage, measuring and cutting area, then to the next cutting area, mostly circle shears and the punch presses, then along one wall to the spinning area, then down the other wall to the finish spinning, trimming and polishing area. Then back to the roll up door on the other side for packaging and shipping. It looked crowded but worked well. I have a grid of 2" receiver tube sockets cast into my shop floor on a 4' grid. After talking to a couple other guys who did this I changed my initial 2' grid plan to the 4' grid plan. We call them "gozintas" because stuff goz inta them. All the receiver tube gozintas are welded into the rebar in the floor so a welding ground lead doesn't have to be underfoot all the time. My, sort of, contribution to the old idea was to connect all mine to a sub floor exhaust system so I can use a cutting/welding table without breathing fumes/smoke. I can run a hose from any one to a table top or engine exhaust, hood over the pickling tank, etc. Having a down draft exhaust has another benefit in a cold climate. Using a large eve exhaust you have to change out all the air in the shop a couple few times to get rid of any smoke and it costs a lot to heat that air in winter Alaska. By drawing a partial vacuum down under the floor the only extra air being sucked out of my warm shop is off the floor and it's the coldest air in the shop already. It is however being drawn through the subfloor gravel where it sheds what heat it has into the ground under the floor. All the gozintas have caps so stuff doesn't fall in and the draw isn't much diminished when the exhaust fan is on. So in my humble opinion gozintas are a double thumbs up option for a new shop. You can always get rid of them later by simply casting them full of concrete and sealing the floor to hide the steel. Frosty The Lucky.

Jerome: Now I'm understanding your questions better. No, I don't think there're any special reasons for the forge pan's shape and the shapes of fire pots have been pretty well covered. First so you know I'm a propane forge guy but I've been messing with fire since I was a kid. I have a couple coal forges ad one I made, the commercial forges are a cast iron buffalo rivet forge and the other is a small 12v powered farrier's forge. Both have pretty flat bottoms but the rivet forge once clayed can be almost ay shape. I really prefer a "duck's nest" rather than a "proper" fire pot. A duck's nest is a shallow depression around the air grate, mine is about 4.5" and about 3/4" deep. I made it by laying a Tupperware bowl over the air grate when I rammed the clay in. When I use it I lay fire brick around the nest in whatever shape, size, depth, whatever I want. I can make a fire virtually any size or shape I need up to a point, maybe 12" across. I can make a fire smaller than a tea cup, virtually a coal powered torch flame. The forge I built is again a duck's nest but the deck is 3' x 4' with a 2" rim all round it. The table is fire brick and the nest is half a brick. My basic nest is 4.5" x 4.5" x 2.25" deep. This isn't the max size nest though, most of my air grate is covered by a coarse of bricks, I can open it up to 9" sq. if I want a major conflagration. The tables are flat, no slope of any consequence, the rivet forge has a very slight dish down to the center but once clayed it's flat as a fritter. If you're going to build a forge just don't get locked into what you THINK is what you need. It's no accident I have so many forges, I just kept picking them up expecting THAT one to be THE right forge. There is no RIGHT forge, all have advantages and disadvantages. You'll end up with several of most variable dependent tools before you get settled in. don't sweat it, we all do. Frosty The Lucky.

Gotta love dogs, Deb's a big border collie fan, I'm more partial to Aussies but love dogs in general. Right now we have a few, the first registered pedigreed dog ever, Falki is Icelandic sheep dog, then there's Abby, half Icy and probably/maybe something else, then there's Baxter our first doxy. Pocket our old girl, (16 next spring) half mini doxy half chihuahua and last but not least journey a Great Pyrenese mountain dog. Everybody but Pocket and Falkiare are rescues. We don't let them run free so they don't get to roll in aromatics. Poor deprived dogs. <sniff> Are you going to do any sport training? Border collies are super competitors at agility and such. Falki loves agility and free style while Baxter is the nose work rock star at the facility. I think it's because he has such a high nose to body ratio. Frosty The Lucky.

This hold fast innovation is from Gordon Williams. I just sharpened the arm so it holds just past the hardy hole and broke the corners on the foot. I made another one that holds in the center of the face so I can really lambaste the work. Credit where credit's due. Thank Gordon. Make one of his clinics if you have a chance. The guy is a thrumming dynamo, always several things in the fire, always something on the anvil always good explanations, answers and amusing stories. Frosty The Lucky.

You never call, you never write. <sigh> Frosty The Lucky.

Those'll work. Practice will refine you're work but you're off to the races now. Frosty The Lucky.

Okay Dave, I know the rules but a pic is worth a thousand words and you know how talkative I am. <sigh> This is the wizard head I made at the Gordon Williams clinic, my first. I realized when I looked closer I ground the corners off the foot on this hold fast so it wouldn't mark the work. Somewhere I have one I drove into a swage with a straight pein to curve the foot. This is the close hold fast made so it'll hold a spike with the head in the hardy hole or over the edge of the anvil. I found the spike way too bouncy to try carving with the head on the anvils face. The weld is embarrassing chicken x x x I know. No excuse. Frosty The Lucky.

Hammers I get at garage/yard/etc. sales for as little as I can. I really prefer them to not have handles, they don't cost near as much and I like my own style handle for smithing. Tongs are wonderful learning projects. You don't need tongs to make tongs, just a fire, anvil, hammer chisel and punch. Making your chisels and punches are excellent learning projects as well. There are a number of excellent how tos for tong making here, take a gander. As a general rule try avoiding using tongs as much as possible, use a longer piece of stock so you can hold it in hand. It'll give you MUCH better feel for what's going on and no tong has the grip your hand has. Steel is a poor conductor of heat so a long piece won't get hot enough to burn very quickly. when it starts getting hot just quench the end you're holding in the water and carry on. A good post vise is, like anvils, not something a person can make for themselves as a beginner and most of us don't want to work that hard. There's a special technique for finding tools, equipment, etc. that works marvelously well called the TPAAAT (Thomas Powers Applied Anvil Acquisition Technique) It works for stuff other than anvils so give it a lash. Basically you tell everybody and I mean EVERYBODY you know, meet, run across, whatever what you're looking for. Your friends and relatives of course but don't forget the folk you work with, check your groceries, the folk in line at the market with you the person you bump into on the sidewalk, the paperboy, EVERYBODY at church . . . You get the idea, tell everybody. You'll be amazed at how well it works. I'm thinking your part of the country has a LOT more smithing tools available so keep your eyes open, hit garage, yard, etc. sales and by all means hook up with the regional smithing organization nearest you. Frosty The Lucky.

Good idea, consider it adopted. My only suggestion is to make the 3/8" end that holds the spike head offset a bit below the channel level so the spike will lay flat. After a clinic by Gordon Williams I adopted and adapted his holdfast. He welds a piece of strip stock to the foot cross ways so it can be used to hold long stock in the middle or however. It's a SWEET adaptation of a hold fast. I adapted it a little by curving piece of flat lengthwise slightly so the edge can't mark the work. I also made one that barely reaches past the hardy hole so it can grip a RR spike with the head in the hardy hole for clearance and it'll lay flat. Thank you for sharing. Frosty The Lucky.

Very COOL! Happy bicentenial Chile! Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard Phil, glad to have you. You might be surprised at how many smiths started out wood workers who just wanted that ONE special one of a kind tool. Next thing they knew they're a blacksmith who also works in wood. There's almost no end to what a guy can make if they put their mind to it and few things in life beat making STEEL do your bidding. Think about it, human civilization is built on steel, has been for a few centuries. Humankind's oldest tools besides that great big brain and thumbs are fire and something to bash with. The soul deep satisfaction of using mankind's oldest tools to make steel our servant is goodness incarnate. Welcome to the addiction, it's a lifelong learning curve, enjoy the ride. Frosty The Lucky.

If I haven't already said Welcome aboard Ron then welcome aboard! You certainly have the knack for hand work, you'll pick up the craft quickly. That is a sweet hawk and for a first attempt it's outstanding. I'm thinking you are SO going to fit in here. Welcome to the addiction, it's a life long learning curve and one GRAND ride. Frosty The Lucky.

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. I'm thinking you're getting our general take on this deal, at $2/lb it's $375 and at $3/lb it's $525. Used AR-15 in 22lr are pretty inexpensive. Even without any extra goodies it's a fair to GOOD trade. Living in Alaska I'd have to drive FAST and take a club to keep someone else from snapping it up. Even in your neighborhood it'll be gone if you waffle much longer. Frosty The Lucky.

Looks good Joel, fits right into the cart's character. But. . . UH. . . You made EVERY mistake in the book? What do you have, a one page pamphlet? I'm rarely accomplished enough to make more than a couple mistakes in anybody's book let alone ALL of them. You my friend are one ambitious guy! <grin> Well done. Frosty The Lucky.

I can hardly hold my anticipation in check Jim! Frosty The Lucky.

I've been pointing out the congruence of BS and abbreviating Blacksmith for I don't know how many years. You only just now noticed? Oh my feelings are crushed! <sniff sniff> Frosty The Lucky.

Hollis I got. I've known quite a few, uncommon though the name may be. I missed how you spell your last name. Teach me not to read it all before opening my . . .er . . . start typing. I don't imagine it'd be too easy to get you going about your name or variations, Frost has given me a lifetime's practice. I go by Frosty simply because it's easier to let people marvel at that than have to listen to some of the truly lame variants. If we ever cross neighborhoods we ought to get together and swap Yearbook autographs. Nothing quite as lame as a high school kid trying very hard to be clever. Speaking of lame you might be surprised at how many folk can't spell Frost. <sigh> Frosty The Lucky.

This is a short preview of a program next Friday. Ought to be worth catching. http://video.pbs.org/video/2365101076/ Frosty The Lucky.

Did you call a concrete company? Every one I've called not only carries fire clay but are happy to answer questions. They probably aren't going to be able to supply you with a recipe for a forge refractory but fire places, fire pits, BBQs, etc. no problem. Virtually every town in the US has a market for fire clay so somebody there carries it. Are you building a solid fuel or propane forge? If you're building a propane forge NO cement! If it's a solid fuel forge forget the insulation (perlite) it's not much use. Or are you building a closed furnace? All these things make a difference. More info will get you much better answers. One more tip is let your fingers do the walking in the Yellow Pages. The internet has some severe limitations where searching out things is concerned. Talking to people on the phone is far faster; even if they don't know or carry what you're looking for, they'll know who does, or know someone who knows someone knows who does. I love the web but it's limited, as you've found on this quest. Frosty The Lucky.

SWEET! That would be a proud piece on anybody's front porch. Frosty The Lucky.