MC Hammer

Very true Thomas!

As others have touched on, a mechanic is not likely the best person to ID an anvil or what it is made out of. Just stop in and ask some time if they have any 5160 scrap, most will say "What?". Ask them for leaf spring scrap and they'll know exactly what you are asking about. Mechanics know a ton about a lot of things, but anvils are not one subject I would lump into that category. With that said, I imagine that's why you asked us on the forum. With a stroke of the keyboard you got the opinion of guys with decades of experience far and above myself and the average guy. Soak it in and trust their opinions. Thomas's comments are so true. I used a crummy anvil given to me by my Dad until I could save up my money to buy a better one. Using this one won't hurt it but could loosen up more of that deteriorating face plate.

No way is that cast iron. No seams and yes handling holes. Like others have said, it's wrought iron with several hard steel plates welded on the face. From what I've seen, those welded plates are not as hardy as the solid steel plates and can come apart...can is the key word. The dip on the face is called sway and it happens with the old ones of your style. You did good, and we don't want to discourage you from using it but it's akin to someone taking that old classic muscle car and using it as a daily driver to work and to the store, etc. You can do that, but most keep it for show and weekend driving. That's probably the vein of thought I'm trying to convey.

All good information everyone. If I'm picking up what everyone is laying down there seems to be two schools of thought: 1) The technically right way is to exhaust the combustion byproducts figuring the proper amount of fresh air to replace the volume of air you are displacing through the hood/chimney/ turbine AND replace the oxygen used during combustion by the forge. This would be akin to having an OSHEA certified engineer come out and do the proper calculations to recommend fresh air replacement options, etc. This is the safest route. 2) The way most guys operate is to roughly figure this out by opening windows / doors settling on the side of more fresh air is best in conjunction with a working hood /turbine. No real calculations are done, but safety is still front and center. This option seems to do everything a smith can to get the combustion byproducts out and let all the fresh air possible into the work area while smartly placing CO detectors as an early warning system. Honestly, I'm leaning toward #2 and that's why I'm putting double doors that can be opened on one end, a back door on the other end, and a window on one wall. In the winter, I think I'll choose the days I work wisely so that as many openings as possible can be cracked / opened without the forge being too cold to work in. I think I'll pick the warmer days. Warmer weather can allow the doors to be completely opened. Does that sound like a wise choice or am I off target?

That's one of the best anvil stands I've ever seen! Did you do the carving? Sorry, I have no info on this anvil but there are more knowledgeable people on her that might know. If that carving on the anvil stand had duplicated the carving on the anvil stand in the actual carving, technically that picture would have went on forever

She's old for sure. Given your location, she could be really old. If it were me, I'd probably clean her up really nice with a wire brush attachment on an angle grinder, oil her, and keep her around for show. Please don't grind the surface level or do any alteration to it since it is so early. If you want to use it, she should give you more years of service without a problem by the looks. I think I'd still preserve her more as an artifact than something to use, but that's just me others may disagree and they'd be right to do so.

Latticino - I was thinking about a straight shot up from the hood to the pipe going to the roof. I know a side draft works well for a coal forge, but my thought is that the turbine attachment will create the draft to pull up the gas forge nasties. I also think Thomas brings up a good point with the burners sucking in the fumes as there's no better way to get sick fast than for it to multiply the effect by recycling bad air over and over. When thinking about this I wonder if it's not possible to think about Thomas's point like we do a car engine. What if a fresh air intake was built to draw in air from outside the forge directly to the burners like the function of an air cleaner for a car engine? I've never heard of this, but if it were constructed of steel pipe up near the forge it would seem to work. When I owned a tepee years ago, I ran a steel pipe underground to the camp fire inside so that it could draw in fresh air and burn better. In theory it wasn't needed as the updraft from the fire should draw in fresh air under the bottom of the tepee. Latticino - how do you feel about me installing a high vent and a low vent in the shop for fresh air during the winter? Maybe it combined with keeping the shop doors / window cracked open would be enough in the winter. I'd like something I can open and close as needed. I plan on insulating the shop well, so it will be pretty tight due to having the space heated to about 45 degrees when not in use during the winter. I'll have to seal it up pretty good to keep the critters out during the winter. I think the turbine on top will make it pretty tough to keep up with replacement air in the winter, but I think it will do a decent job of pulling the CO and combustion gases out which is half of the equation. April - November should not be an issue as I should be able to have the double doors open and the back door on the opposite end open along with the window on the prevailing wind side.

So I'm in the planning stages for my shop addition for my forge. I' m thinking through things before I jump into building. I've read a ton on here regarding ventilation. My shop will be 12 x 20 and I'm using a 2 burner Diamondback Blacksmith forge connected to a 100 pound propane take that will be located outside the building. My plans are to build a cement block base (suitable to add a coal forge someday if I go that direction) with a metal top. My thinking is a large hood directly over the gas forge and connected to an insulated stove pipe chimney exiting out the roof straight above. I also plan to install a turbine cap at the top of the chimney like the one pictured below. My chimney would extend a bit higher than the one in the picture so I can be clear of snowfall in the winter here in NY. One end will have 6 foot double doors while the other end of the shop will have a steel regular sized door. I'll also have a window that opens on the prevailing wind side. I'm thinking this will be plenty of ventilation in the summer, but I'm wondering if a cracked door and the turbine at the top of the chimney will be enough for the winter months. I'm open to suggestions on this plan and any corrections from those with more experience. I'm obviously going to have a CO detector in my work area and one at the back of the shop to warn me well before I have trouble.

I just realized I said I was doing a "Module" foundation but meant a monolithic foundation. Not sure how that word slipped out of my mind instead of monolithic. Long day I guess.

Good point Steve. I rake my roof so I tend to forget how much the weight of snow can be. My problem is I know enough to be dangerous, so that's why I'm calling someone in that knows more about it. I guess I see so many quick and dirty forging shops built on here for cheap and its hard to see the bottom line of doing things the right way. It will be better in the long run though. Having heat and a properly built shop will pay its dividends when I can work all winter long on forging orders.

My flatter is all pitted with rust and I'm pretty sure someone dug it up metal detecting. I bought it off a picker who had a bunch of different hammer heads in a bucket. The bottom flatter part was not pitted though so someone must have dressed it out years ago. Deals are out there, it's just harder to find them.........correction, you just actually have to work at it harder.

RobS - My thinking is a module type slab like what is done for garages (which are not below the frost line). The module type slabs have an 18 inch footer that would be on the load bearing walls. In my case, the roof would extend out from the existing roof line so the load would be carried by wall that the roof rafters terminate on (I think). The side walls would not be bearing any load other than the weight of wall its self, correct? Steve Sells, I've decided to call a contractor to come up and give me an estimate, so when he's here I'll pick his brain on the foundation part and code. I can do the concrete work, but I need it to be right and I believe code would allow me to have the module foundation on something that isn't a living space. I might get away with only a 4 inch thick slab this way, but the last thing I need is for code to tell me it's not right and have to tear things apart. I do live in the sticks and could probably do this without a permit if I did it myself since this is nothing but an outbuilding, but code exists for a reason and sometimes those reasons make a difference 5 years down the road when you notice something is wrong. I like to do things right or not do them at all, but I'm also as cheap as the next guy and don't want to sink a fortune into a 12 x 20 building. Another question I had is if anyone has insulated under their concrete floors with 2 inch polystyrene sheets? My worry is that it's not going to make that much of a difference, but I've only worked on slabs that were not insulated.

I've read through just about everything here on the shop builds and the time has come to add onto an existing shop to house my forge. The addition would be 12 ft wide by 20 ft long. I'm adding onto an existing 1960's single wide trailer that already serves as a flintknapping shop. It has electric, working bathroom, and an oil furnace for heat. My thoughts were, why recreate the wheel? If I build a stand alone forge I've got to run electric to it and heat it (well heating is nice but not essential) and hey, a working toilet is nice to have nearbye. With an addition, I can just extend heating ducts from the trailer into the addition to keep it at a decent temp in there all winter. I keep the shop at 45 degrees when not in use, so that's plenty to prevent tool sweat when I start the forge up. Here's what I need help with. If I pour a concrete slab, I'm thinking a 4 inch slab will be thick enough if I have 6-8 inch depth on the load bearing section. Think that's thick enough? The single wide has a stand alone roof build over the old roof, so connecting off of that roof is not a problem as the support beams for that room go down below the frost line and do not bear any load on the original trailer frame. Any ideas on how to avoid the cost of a concrete slab? I'm afraid critters will just burrow under a brick floor for warmth and over time the floor would suffer. Same with a dirt floor. Everything else I've got pretty well worked out. I know the IFI family must have some guys out there with contractor experience that might be willing to give an opinion. I'd sure appreciate a point in the right direction.

Well Mellin, if I'm remembering right it did have a strong oakish type smell when I removed the bark and used a draw knife to smooth it some. My stump had been sitting on the side of the road for 6 or 8 months too. I looked at that thing every day going to work and coming home. Finally one night I gathered up some buddies and we rolled that baby up a 4 wheeler ramp into my buddy's truck. It took all three of us to move it. Stumps look smaller when you view them from a ways away. BTW, I just checked my bands on Saturday, and you guessed it I had to tighten both top and bottom so it's still shrinking. When you first band it, check those bands every week and tighten the bolt. Even banding mine it still has some sizable cracks, none of which will hurt it any. I think what you don't want is a crack that extends from one side to the other or a crack beside another crack that creates a wedge piece of wood that could come loose. I used a router to carve out the shape of my anvil base and then I used silicone caulking to bed it. Wow is all I can say! Quieted my Trenton down to hardly anything. I think if I'd used a bit more caulk it would "thud" like cast iron. I'm not worried because with hot metal on it it won't ring at all, but just tapping it with a hammer produces a very slight ring, but nothing like the deafening ring it used to have.

Let's hope the market is flooded with tools again Thomas! You are correct, they have to die at some point and their kids will put it up for sale.

Can't beat a good rawhide mallet too! My junk guy threw one in for free when I bought a pair of tongs from him. Pet stores have plenty of good rawhide that can be soaked, rolled up, and used on a handle. On the wood subject, I see plenty of old wood mallets out there for sale so it might be worth it to pick up a few every so often to keep a reserve stock. I bought a big old square one for $12 at an antique store that I use for everything. It was made out of burl wood so that thing was used historically for a while and I'll probably never need another one in my lifetime. I looked at a lot of them until I found one that was made from tough & twisted burl wood.

I'm betting the terrible smell is hot metal scale burning that fiberglass handle. Ever bend and break a round fiberglass rod? It stinks really bad! That could be it too. It could be flexing and putting off that smell, but most likely it's the hot metal scale burning it. Go on Ebay, there are tons of hammer heads for cheap (well cheapish, but not flea market or garage sale cheap) and get yourself a good handle for the hardware store. Way cheaper and way better than that Estwing. I'm a relatively newer smith and I've put 7 or 8 handles on heads that I picked up for cheap. If you must buy new, go to Harbor Freight and get their wood handled hammers. They were my first hammers and they work just fine, just don't grind too much of the face of them off as they may be just case hardened. I can't see paying hundreds of dollars for a hammer. Maybe if someone sent me one of these high dollar hammers for free I'd eat those words after using it

I think a lot of guys get into it for nostalgia as they imagine dark old smithies making a living in colonial and other times in history. Those guys want the old anvils for the most part. So they go for the old anvil and then as they smith for a while I imagine they see the value of the newer anvils. If I had my choice, I'd have both!!! I'd love a new tool steel anvil and I'd love to keep my old German Trenton. Prices are through the roof because people will pay them. If nobody could sell the Refflinghaus for $2,000, the price would be lower. We talk a lot on here about how FIF has driven the price of things up and a lot of people are watching the show, then jumping out and buying an anvil to make knives and swords. My fear is that when all of these people lose interest, there isn't going to be the glut of tools flooding the market and driving prices down like a lot of us are hoping for, but instead the tools and anvils will be pushed aside into the corner of the garage with hopes of doing it again when they have money / time. Or, they are thinking to themselves "Man I have $2,000 tied up in this, I'd hate to sell any of it."

Deilonx5 you didn't do too bad. Remember, if you are in an area where anvils fall out of trees yeah you overpaid, but you are in a place where they are far and few between. If you picked it up yourself, you saved a significant amount in shipping. The little dents and things are not a big deal. Like others have said, square corners and a dead flat surface are overrated and not the norm for most old anvils. I always tell people if they want a perfect anvil to buy a new one. Since my anvil face isn't perfectly straight and level, I got a block of steel that I mounted to a post and it serves as a flatter station for anything I need perfectly flat & smooth or if I need sharp/square edges. See picture below (It's mounted securely with brackets to hold the metal piece to the post on a bed of silicone caulking as it rang like a bell. That was my fix for not having a flat and square anvil face/edges. It also works great for a quick and dirty "anvil" when I just need to do a quick project and don't feel like wheeling out my anvil & stump.

I have to agree with Thomas. I've said it a lot and I'll say it again: That anvil fed a lot of families just like it is. The smiths before you didn't see the need to square the edges and such and they probably logged more time at the anvil in a week than most of us do in a couple of months. Don't get me wrong, I like seeing a beautiful anvil just like everyone else but I kinda gravitate toward tools that were well used by their former caretaker. It is yours to do as you want though, you shelled out the cash for it so do what gives you the most joy out of it.

Anyone ever try butcher block conditioner? I restored an old butcher block that I got at a shop and put that stuff on it and it soaked it up pretty well. Since I had to make a few hammer handles, I decided to try it. It doesn't darken it much and there isn't any oily residue. I decided to give it a whirl. The purpose is to seal the handle so I think as long as you do that and not make it slippery you'd be fine.

I'd leave it alone. If you have another anvil with a perfect hardy, use that for your hardy needs and keep this one for when you need a monster to do that kind of metal moving. It's be a shame if you messed up the hard face especially a face that nice. Like others have said, that hardy is perfectly usable as is. My hardy works fine and it's not got perfectly square top at the face level. To me it's the square shape below the face that really has the holding power. If it's just fixing it for looks, I wouldn't risk it. It does look like someone welded a fix there before

Mellin, I have an ash stump and let me tell you that you need to band it up as soon as the bark is removed or it will split terribly. You wouldn't believe how much it will shrink. Mine is banded on the top and bottom and I just had to cut the band and drill a new hole for the bolt and nut because I'd tightened the old one up as far as I could. Now mind you I left a good sized gap on the first banding thinking it would dry out and shrink so I was shocked I had to shorten the bands. I'm wondering just when my poor ash stump will be fully dried out. Great deal on the Trenton. I too have a Trenton and love it.

Could be an early Trenton or a PW. It looks to be in pretty good shape, but you really to have to do all the testing as has been suggested. Be prepared to walk away. I paid less than $2 per pound for my anvil last year. $3 per pound would be my max unless you have a pile of money you've been saving up and don't care. I searched for a whole year before finding a decent anvil so I understand how frustrating it can be not to have one. I was using a little 75 pound junker anvil but it got me by and was free. I'm guessing the seller underestimated the weight. The seller of my anvil lifts boxes for a living and he said it was 150 lbs. Turned out to be 179 pounds when I found the weight after cleaning it up. If it were me, I'd first look it over and do the testing. If all that is good, then search for a weight. Know your english weight conversions because a PW will have that old system stamped on it. If it is an early Trenton, the weight will be on the side between both sets of feet. Then start with your low-ball price. I've seen people hear be surprised with the seller accepting that low-ball price right away. Most times you work up from your low-ball. Don't belittle his anvil, but do point out obvious large flaws that would work in your favor. Some sellers don't understand blacksmithing or understand that a certain flaw or problem lowers the price. Many sellers are pricing for the antique market so letting them know you are a blacksmith immediately conveys a different message. My junk shop guy I go to knows I'm a blacksmith and sells me tongs for a much lower price I'm sure than if someone from the city was there in their fur coat asking for industrial art for a decor job they were designing. Always be prepared to walk away.

Wow, that's a nice little cluster of good stuff. Amish usually put a premium on their stuff rather it be baked goods or stuff they are selling, but it's usually top notch. The only thing you have to decide is if you want to pay up. Maybe if you buy several things he'd lower his price per pound. If so, pick the thing you want and some things you know you can sell to recoup the price of the anvil. Get creative as he will only be thinking about the bottom line. If you can buy more and get say 3 anvils for $3 per pound, you can keep one and sell the other two for $4 per pound as people are paying that these days (not me, but some don't mind parting with that kind of cash). Let us know how it turned out and what ends up following you home.