Timothy Miller

This is beyond the scope of blacksmithing but it is too cool

Your right grant the probably don't even make the tips anymore for that kind of work. I don't doubt that back in the day people did that. I heard about a guy who welded with 3/8 re-bar as filler wire on 5/8" plate back in the 1950's in Arabia in the oil fields.

One of the problems with welding wrought is if you weld a piece perpendicular to the grain it can tare out aka delaminate in the heat affected zone especially if it is lower grade wrought. Even if you use the right rod/process. If you are going to heat wrought and put any kind of stress to it really needs to be at least at a high forging heat. After graduated I used to run around in NYC with a welding truck. I fixed a lot of very old fire escapes and hand rails. I took apart a lot of old wrought iron stuff with rivets, bolts, forge welds, gas welds and arc welds. Even buildings built in the 1940,s they were using wrought for fire escapes and riveting or bolting. Some one told me it was against code to weld together fire escapes they had to be riveted or bolted. Doind that work was like getting a crash course in the history of metal work. Now if you are making art anything that looks like you want it to look like and wont fall apart is acceptable. Unless if it falling apart is part of the work.

Upset the end a bit to build up some mass on the end of the bar. Then peen it out with a cross peen. Don't be afraid to use a file to clean it up a bit.

Thanks, you saved me fuel and time. I hope to return the favor some time.

\ It is for a tool I have been making for the past 10 years. I have kiss blocks and swages for 1/2" I am tired of the extra work. I was using 3/4 5160 or 4140 untill the supply that I had ran out. I also used to raid the local train tracks for extra spring clips but I think I have picked up every one with in a 5 mile radius of my shop. Not to mention those that are left are frozen into the ground right now. I am going to check out those sources tomorrow. I really want a finished bar because part of the tool is left with the original section.

I will take any kind of harden-able alloy as long as it in not mild steel.

Bayport NY 11705

I am looking for some 4140 or 4340 or 5160 in 1/2" square any ideas who would handle something like that. I need about 18'. Don't want to reforge any scrap.

So why did my comment get a -3 BTW (asking for an explanation not reassurance that i know what I am talking about.) I was the first person to mention gas welding. Schwarzkoph "Plain and Ornamental Forging" has a whole chapter on gas welding wrought iron it is also discussed in "Metal techinques for craftsman" By Oppi Untracht When you really get down to it wrought iron is the material for blacksmiths not welders. it is like the play dough of ferrous metals get it hot enough and it will practically forge weld it self.

Did I say something wrong there?

I have read that gas welding works well. I have also seen some respectable welds with stainless steel rods but forge welding is best for wrought iron. Now all you need is a crew of strikers and a very big fire.

Use it till it breaks. Then build up with hard facing. A forge weld of that size is a major job and getting the heat treatment right is going to require a large amount of flowing water.

As a working blacksmith I feel that the term hand forged is quite abused. I think it would be in our interest to come up with a definition. a lot of things we buy are based on preceded value and that is why many of our customers come to us. There are a lot of part suppliers and fab shops looking to eat our lunch and passing off mediocre work. There are gunning for us just pick up a copy of the "Fabricator" or even the "Anvils Ring" there are ads form component suppliers and foundries. Telling us to save time and money by using there products. They even market to home builders and architects. Some times you get prints with all of the parts called off with numbers. In my opinion this amounts to defacto approval from Abana when they have their ads in there but that is a different rant. When some one is doing a minimal amount of hand work or no hand work and passing it off as hand forged it makes it harder for us smiths to make a living. Marketers are constantly blurring the lines of what words actually mean. A prime example is Wrought Iron anything made of steel and painted black is Wrought Iron. From time to time the term "Genuine wrought Iron" on prints for restoration work but this is mostly ignored. These sort of specifications could help working smiths get more work and stop unqualified shops form getting jobs they have no business doing. With things like water-jet cutting CNC milling and 3D printers it is only a matter of time before some one builds a machine than can duplicate any shape in steel with any surface texture. They now even have CNC machine welders that can build up parts by adding welds in a highly controlled process. I had a client bring me a rapid prototype nylon replica of a hand forged u-bolt from a historic building he had it made in a 3D printer. He was contemplating having it milled from a billet of steel using a state of the art machining center. These sort of things are more expensive for the time being but who knows what is coming. It is only a matter of time in my opinion that someone with in the next 20 years will invent a process that duplicates reasonably well the appearance of hand forging. If I ran the world this is how it would work. "Traditional hand forged" would mean made with out the use of power tools in a coal or charcoal fire with the exception of direct water powered machinery. "Hand forged" could be made using the 70/30 rule with any power equipment one likes to use. At least 70% of the work is done hot using forge/induction heater anvil power hammer press. Use of closed dies is minimal. I would say with tools and blades 50%50 would be acceptable because there often a lot of finish grinding and fitting. "Forged Fabricated" could cover anything else that has forgings in it And something called wrought iron has to be made from wrought iron everything else is wrought steel.

Sadly here on long island where I live there are not many machine shops left. The ones that are here are turning some exotic stuff mostly for aerospace. They tend to sell their scrap. I don't know who would have that much steel swarf.

I understand the concept. No way am I going to spend a couple days making chips. I have to eat is there anything I could just buy off the shelf?

I do 14.5 Southbend.

I have the oil valve set to 1/8" of a turn. But sometimes I do give it a touch more because my hammer runs a bit hot from time to time and bogs down mostly in hot weather. In fact my piston once seized at this oil setting. I called Tom and he told me this had happened on one other new hammer but did not elaborate. All in all I am happy with this machine. I like the 55 gal drum idea. Where to get 55 gallons of swarf though?

I have a problem with oily exhaust from my Say-Mak. When I first got my hammer about 2 years ago I had it vented inside the shop. This proved to be a bad because it vented oil mist into the shop and made me feel sick. I ran a rubber exhaust hose the kind used on boats outside the shop this has worked well. The hammer is in daily use and there is now a oil stain on the side of the building and oil contaminated soil under the exhaust. Is there a way to avoid this. I have been using oil as prescribed by Tom Clark with the oilier valve set as he told me to do it. If I turn down the oilier the hammer runs hot so using less oil is not an option. I don't like the fact I am polluting and I fear one day the town might come down on me for it. Where I live people get ticketed for dumping oil even small quantities.

Forge first then cut not the other way.

The fastest way In my humble opinion would be to do it hot. But there are several problems with that idea. How do you space the cuts evenly? How do you make sure the cuts are all the same depth. Perhaps some sort of jig that supports the tool and has guides for the hot cut. So it wont look too rough and all of the teeth will be the same height so they wear evenly. I don't know enough about broaching to give an informed opinion about that.

I would take a small piece of flat bar just bigger than the cracked bit to bridge it all together. like 3/4" by 1/4" and punch or drill a hole in the center. Use that as a clamp to hold it all together. Put a touch longer bolt in and install it. It ought to work just fine. I have seen more than a few blacksmith repairs done in this fashion that lasted a good long wile.

What you did is just plane old blacksmithing. Making due with the materials at hand much like smiths have been doing since the beginning. I from time to time forge out a piece for exactly the same reasons you did. If you only need a few inches or feet it is better to just forge it than get on the phone. its faster and cheaper if you have a power hammer than running out more often than not.

I think he means operating out side the laws of physics.

If it were left in place as it should be. There would be no problems. That house should be listed as a historic structure.