Ted T

Randy, Glad you made it here. Did you move to Heber Utah as was planned? I wish you the Best In getting your business going!! I drive through Heber about twice a month! Ted Throckmorton ~ (AKA) T&L Forge

I would not want anyone to see a video of my life. It would take the joy and focus off of how my life is NOW! It has taken everything good and bad to help me realize the good life I have now! My choice is to focus on a man who I beleive is an acceptional Craftsman. Welcome Back Jesse

Anvil ~ Form and Function of an Anvil Support You asked a very good, simple, strait forward; question that I believe has several underlying factors that should be considered in order to meet YOUR needs. Many here have covered important aspects that should be consider when deciding on what type of anvil support (stump) that will meet your needs. I will add my thoughts although it is mostly repetition As a seemingly simple question that you asked, I feel the type of anvil support you end up using should be based on a broad spectrum of information, just as you are asking for. Here is my approach to most issues: Most undertakings we do in life can be done in one of several ways based on the immediate circumstances and funds available. The process we choose to achieve a certain results is sometime referred to as “Form and Function”. An example: You are planning to take a trip and travel to a certain destination. To keep this simple, the “function” would be to reach your destination. The “form” would be what manner of transportation you use to travel. Many issues must be considered when making the decision on how YOU are going travel such as how far you need to travel, weather conditions, time element, availability of vehicle use, and so on! Based on your situation and needs, you may choose one or a combination of the following ways to fill the “FORM” part of the equation to get to your destination. You may choose some of the following options; Walk, Bicycle, Motorcycle, Automobile, Bus, Fly, Hitch Hike, Hand push cart, or Hand pull cart. Or, Horse Drawn; Pull cart, Buggy, Wagon, Stage Coach. Or, Oxen drawn cart, and so on as a means to fill the “FORM” part of the equation. I am sure you get my point! It can become endless. Only you understand your needs and abilities. And so it is with the type of STUMP or anvil support you choose to use also. The function is to find a “support “that will hold your Anvil securely and that will meet all of your needs so as to allow you to use it to your maximum advantage. Some factors to consider: 1. A safe anvil is a secure anvil. In the 50’s I learned from an old Blacksmith, “Konger” was his name. He said to “make sure you secure your anvil and anvil stand”. He knew of blacksmiths who have tipped over un-secured anvils. He called them a floater anvils, usually a smaller anvil they would move around the shop and was placed were needed. He said the problem can easily surface usually when using a bending fork in the hardie hole of an unsecured anvil or stand. As they were bending a piece of long stock, it would start to cool. Like most of us, they were trying to get the most out of each heat as they could. Because they would push the window to the limit, now instead of bending the stock, the long piece of stock would cool off (stiffened up) and has turned into a lever . Now as a lever, it would start to tip the unsecured anvil or stand over as you tried to bend it. When the smiths tried to catch the anvil, yup, you guessed it! I’ll bet they limped for awhile. Most of us say we would not try to catch an anvil. But I have seen it myself! It is a good thing that I cannot remember very well, it may have been ME! 2. Anvil Height v. Functional Effective Use. Just my thoughts only! Before I would install a stump buried deep in the ground (as is desired for a permanently installed anvil stump location) vs. (a floater or a demo anvil support). I would consider identifying what the ideal height would be for my best use. If you are young and still have growing to do, I would consider a style that allowed me to adjust height. Once you feel good about it, plant your stump if that is your choice. 3. Consider what anvil you will be using on a permanently installed structure. The height and the area of mass of the anvil must be considered so it will fit up properly when you size the stump. ! Note: How to establish the proper height for your self is another issue in its self! Just my thoughts, best to you as you proceed in the craft of Blacksmithing!

Stewart thank you for posting this video. The blacksmith in the first video (the one you was talking about), moved so fast that I could not see for sure where his thumb was located when he was striking. But one thing for sure is that he seemed to have very long thumbs! I have never seen a billows set up like that, and I found it be very creative. That guy put everythging he had into forging. He could strike like a machine. I bet he would be a fearsome opponent in a UFC fight!! Thanks again!

I love this place This could easly turn into becomming I Forge Iron "Show and Tell" I have a great friend who loves to build also. By accident we developed what we called "Tool of the Month Club" We tryed to out do each other by obtaining the most expensive tool, or the biggest , or (you just name it) tool each month! As the months and years went buy, you can imagine the number of un-nessary tools we collected just to out do each other. We always kept in mind That "He who dies with the most tools, dies with the most tools". The End!!!! I have never seen a U-Haul Truck following a hearse. Then your kids and wife will sell them in a yard sell for $0.10c on the dollar! I have seen that happen with my friends whole blacksmith shop.! I still have tools that earn their storage just by being different. I call them collectables, other people may call them junk! If I was able to post photos I would! ~ I am not able to use the gallery at this time, I have tried! This thread sounds promising in that we may see some interesting tools!

Ed, prayers continue for you and yours from our home. Prayers of gratitude!

Deloy Larson’s Large Trap Randy, I see that you know what I am talking about then. Thank you for acknowledging Deloy and who he is! There is a reason I feel it is important to focus on who Deloy is as a person. And that would be to hopefully give some food for thought to new blacksmiths, and let them know that there is more to blacksmithing than the skills of forging. That a good and kind heart will help a person reach the heights of what is most important in life by using the vehicle of their skills of being a blacksmith! I feel privileged that Deloy sent me “Trap Number 416” ~ Big Foot Trap Line Co. I attached links to some photos of the Deloy’s LARGE trap. Deloy’s humor ran deep. This very quiet and gentle man had a fun but clever (tongue in cheek) positive way of surprising people with his ingenious skills and the end product. He put into practice what old “Grandpa Jones” of Hee Haw and Grand Old Opery fame sung about in a song called “Falling Leaves” . Here is just the last verse it: “To your grave there's no use taking any gold; It's no use when it's time for hands to fold. When you leave this world for a better home someday The only thing you'll take is what you gave away.” - - - - - - - - http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/30056-deloy-trap-1/ http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image/30057-deloy-trap-2/ I believe what that song says, and I know Deloy understood those words and lived them! I wish the best to all who read this. Ted Throckmorton

Look under "Blacksmithing, General Discussion" Then scroll down to "Finding Blacksmithing Group Near You" This way you can search for more options if I am incorrect. This is what I came up with! Try Illinois Valley Blacksmith Association (IVBA) or Blacksmiths Association of Missouri - BAM This is only a starting point!! - Best of luck to you!

DeLoy Larson (Larson’s Ornamental Iron in Pleasant Grove, Utah) passed away on November 12, 2011. The Blacksmithing and Metal Fabrication world has been honored and privileged to have had such a wonderful and talented Blacksmith and Metal Artist in its ranks. This day I am torn between morning the loss of a friend, or to celebrate that I knew such a man. I have chosen to celebrate how his life has touched my life and so many other people’s lives in such positive and generous ways. One question I ask myself when I associate with someone is “Would I want to depend on this person if we were in combat?” The answer is hardly ever “Yes”. DeLoy’s word was gold. And yes, I would trust DeLoy in any kind of a situation be it Skill level, Business, or in War. To have known this quiet, strong, talented blacksmith, and brilliant man has been one of my life’s privileges. I can say that he has truly given me the “shirt off of his back” in the form of time spent with me when he could have been making money, treasures he has given to me as things he made, and the treasure of his unique friendship. Deloy spoke of his family often. We are fortunate that his son “Doug” who worked with father (DeLoy) all of his life will keep the forge fire of “Larson’s Ornamental Iron” burning. DeLoy often spoke of the sacrifices that his family had to endure while he was building his business such as insurance issues, finances, and long hours, just like so many of us in this business have done. He spoke a lot about his son (Doug) who walked in DeLoy’s footsteps from the time he was a little boy. He was concerned that he may have made him work too much and too hard. That little boy (Doug) became a highly skilled metal fabricator and business man. I would say “Yes” Doug paid a price to obtain his knowledge and skills, but DeLoy was in hopes that Doug would understand someday that he thought it was for his best good. During the past two years while Deloy was so sick, he could not say enough positive things about how well Doug ran the company. He said "if I knew Doug would have done so well I would have retired a long time ago". In summary; my life, and I believe many others lives are much better for having known DeLoy Larson and his son Doug. Ted Throckmorton And now may the Anvils Ring with Joy to celebrate this fine man’s life.

Thanks for asking that question . It impelled me to watch the video on YouTube. It was well worth my time and I finally got to see the basics of how a “Fly Press” works.

Welcome back!

Frosty the Lucky said: "Give Bella and the Mrs. a big ole Frosty Hug for me will you? Can't hurt, might help." I say; How can we go wrong with prayers to our Father in heaven and a "big ole Frosty Hug" Ed, I have no question that our Father in Heaven is aware of all involved. It is for sure He wants us to chose life. I beleive when men and women who forge steel with their hands pray for you and yours "Baby Bella", they open heavenly doors with their hearts. As I review every entry in this post, it encourages me to know that you are not alone. I would hope it would go with out saying, Prayers continue!

Hang in there Ed!!!!!! Hang in there! Ted Throckmorton

OOOOOps! I put this information together before you posted that you required it to be blower driven. This information may be at least interesting to you, but not blower driven. I would talk to Dennis at Diamondback Ironworks for ideas. He is a very sharp forge builder. Last year I bought a Metal Artist 2-burner Forge with an Idler Valve Kit. It opens up into a clam shell design (three sides). Or you can close it down to use as a knife makers forge if you like. Check it out here. http://www.diamondba...775/7243474.htm Or, to see it in operation; Open You Tube, and search for “My new Diamondback Forge” You will see it in action! The best to you! Ted Throckmorton

:rolleyes: What Richard Said!!!! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Because we Dale! Looks like Dale scored large when you become his student! The very best to you and your mentor!!!

You is correct! - Brain/finger cramp! Thank you for picking that up!

You and yours (Baby Bella) are remembered here. I am glad I got home late so I could read your up-date!

Thank you all for some good after thoughts. I hope this will assist someone else. Thomas Powers said;”Seems like it might be possible to forge a chisel so the tip has the correct angle to it even when held vertical.” I agree that your reasoning could possibly work. I think Phil said it quite accurately. Phil Krankowski said in part;” Regrinding your chisels so they are flat on one side and only have one bevel allow for deeper holes to be chiseled.” While I was in the process (at the time), I had thought about forging a chisel with a point (angled tip) that would initiate and capture the bite lower into the cut, and then follow through with whatever worked. But I kept thinking that it would be quicker to just go ahead and peck and punch my way through it! Jimbob said in part:” only the top 1 1/2 to 2 inches is what is important to hold the tool” Good thought! I need to be thinking that thought at the time. After reading another post titled “How to dress a Hardy Hole”, it would have given me some more latitude at the rim of the hardy hole. Frank Turley said: An excellent book that helps me in smithery is "The Blacksmith's Craft" from COSIRA, London, England. I quote from page 4: "It is a good plan to chamfer the edges of the square hole so that the hardy sits tight to the anvil face; this is also a convenience when using the hole for setting slightly curved bars." Again, thank you all for the input!

This is from my notes about what Brian has said about his homemade striking anvil. I am presently in the middle of constructing one for myself. I hope my information is accurate. Brian’s Striking Block Size: Block = 10” Long X 4” wide X 3” thick = Total of 100 Sq. Inches My Striking Block Size: 9.25” Long X 5.75” wide X 2.25” Thick = Total of 119.67 Sq. Inches. I believe Brian’s Anvil Height is 27 3/4" high. He suggests that it should be no taller than 30", but shorter is better. You want the full throw of your sledge hammer. Brian said;”While Brian was at the Ag museum in Mississippi my anvil sunk into the ground and stopped at 18". Bryan said that it was even better for the striker, but a little low for the director.” Cutting a Hardy Hole Issue; Thickness of the steel block = 2.25” Size of Hardy Hole = 1” Square Process: I drilled a one inch hole first. To finish; it was necessary to clean and square the corners up. The process I chose was to chisel and file the hardy hole square. Tools used: Cape Chisel, Diamond Point Chisel (used is for cleaning out corners), Round Nose Chisel, and a Machinist’s Chisel, and several different files. How I did it: By trial and error I found that it was important get a good bite into the steel with the chisel tilted to an extreme right angle to the steel. Then after getting a good bite into the steel, I would then lessen the initial bite angle and hammer the captured piece down and out! I found an issue with chiseling deeper than one inch with only having a one inch opening. At a certain point being able to get a good bite into the steel lessons as you go deeper because of being restricted by the width of the hole. As you chisel deeper the right angle is reduced for obtaining a good initial bite into the steel to a point of inefficiency. The deeper I chiseled the less effective chiseling became for me. One answer is to work your way into the center of the piece from both sides. Another answer has been spoken of already: Have it water jetted or Laser cut if possible. The problem I encountered I am sure is due to my inexperience in doing this process for the first time. But I am happy to say that I do not plan on doing it a second time! If you decide to Chisel a Hardy Hole through a thick piece of steel, take a lunch with you and cancel your vacation! The best to you! Ted Throckmorton

I can just immagine it now! -- ooooo000OOOO(Stan's Bigfoot "Hammer-in" Catering Service). P.S. Bring your own hammer!

Paul Di Francesco, would be a roll model for holding Hammer-ins. He would be the "GOTO' guy, and has a great shop that is well equipped. He has conducted blacksmith gatherings of all types for many years. He knows the In's and Out's of what is needed for a sucessful event. I feel that is why his shop is very popular. The issue I am speaking of is when you do not have room enough in your or shop or your own property, and you need to provide everything that you would need from scratch. As I approached people to find a suitable location, the first thing that would come up was about Liability issues of holding it on their property. And then not having the necessary facilities available and in place to use. I have come to the conclusion that you pretty well should have a basic setup to make it work without a lot of outside stresses. A good point was made about food and being able to unload and load. That is the kind of suggestions I feel we need.

I am putting this out as a suggested place to compile and help build and stockpile information and suggestions for the use of anyone who may consider being a Host or a Sponsor of a Hammer-in type event If you should read this, I feel it is only fair that you know what my qualifications are to plan and set-up a Blacksmith Hammer-in: I have NONE! Recently Richard Thibeau of Dancing Frog Forge suggested that I should hold a Hammer-in here in eastern Utah. Richard is a positive thinker and wants to expand the I Forge Iron experience to a broader base of blacksmiths. But he caught me off guard when he made a post about the possibility. So I consented to look into the possibilities. So I have. I gave it an indepth look to see what the realistic feasibility was to hold an event that would be worth a “hard working man” to spend money for gas and other expenses in order to attend. On the face of the idea it sounded like it may be an easy decision to make. At first thought I felt that all I needed to do was find a place larger than mine to hold the event. But then reality in the form of “Liability, Event Location Requirements, Availability of Tools and Equipment, Materials, On site camping accommodations, Off site Quarters, First Aid Station, Transportation, and Public Relations considerations, created obstacles that were beyond my means! That is a general summation of the issues. The details of each issue cut deep. I found that my personal resources and the area resources combined would be inadequate to start-with for a successful outcome. Any one of the several issues that I eventually had to address made it clear that I would be way over my head and beyond my abilities and resources to be able to Sponsor and Host a hammer-in with a favorable outcome. I know that if I threw caution to the wind and held such an event against my better judgment it would most likely be disappointing anyone who spent time and money to attend, and would place un-necessary stress on me and my wife knowing how inadequate conditions would be to start with. That being said, I feel it may be appropriate to build an information base that would act as a check list to help someone else who may decide to sponsor or host a Hammer-in. To start with I feel it would be important to review two aspects of consideration about sponsoring or hosting a Hammer-in. One would be Logistical considerations. The other would be the Program schedule and agenda Logistical: Everything listed below requires your close consideration. I suggest that you ask yourself an informative question about each topic. Some Legal Aspects to Consider: “Liability”. You need to assess and be aware of the risks involved of not having Insurance/Bonding if you are not covered properly. And you need to fully and functionally understand your Property Owners coverage, and then be willing to take the chance. Remember: YOU NEED TO TAKE CHARGE! If you don’t, your friend and good old buddy will most likely not want to not sue you. But from 36 years of experience dealing with civil law I found that his attorney, and or insurance company will most likely sue you in a heartbeat to recover ALL costs (including all legal fees). To set this un-wanted process in motion only takes a fraction of a second of carelessness or inattentiveness on the part of highly skilled people, right down to problems of allowing children to run freely and un-supervised in your shop that could cause you to lose everything. Having un-supervised children on your property or in your shop is not recommended. I have seen the problem of people who was supposed to be in charge not wanting to upset the parents of some active unsupervised children. So nothing was said. Then plenty was said to the parents who seemed impervious of their children’s conduct before it was discovered that they had turned the knobs of an Acetylene bottle all the way on and also opened the torch without someone noticing right away. Thank goodness they brought attention to themselves when one of them pulled a hunk of steel off of a bench that landed close to a child. The children could have injured themselves by pulling the hunk of steel off of the bench and/or killed everyone in the shop with the acetylene issue. Is a Permit needed for Conditional Use, so as to comply with zoning requirements? Town or area politics. It is anything that may alter, disrupt, or impact the normal routine or daily life of the community. I know of blacksmith that was arrested while doing exactly what the mayor of the town had hired him to do. Impact on neighborhood - - Smoke – Noise – Parking Issues - - Zoning Restrictions Permission from neighbors who will be affected in some manner. Transportation to and from Airport and Local transportation also. Lodging and Site Location requirements: a. Enough Room to park cars. b. Room to set up Tents or Park Trailers or Motor Homes. Or is there a convenient location close enough that would be appropriate to set up tents or park cars and or RV’s. Availability to Motel/Hotel rooms fit enough to stay in”. c. Enough area to set aside for Forging activities and Social needs. Note: A covered area of some type should be available in case of unfavorable weather. d. Electricity needs to be available. e. Water needs to be available. f. Rest rooms or Portable Out-houses are needed. g. First Aid station. If someone is hurt, then the question will come up about your lack of knowledge to have proper first aid equipment available that would be equal to the nature of the activity taking place. You would be found negligent if you are not prepared. You as a sponsor or a Host to the event you are expected to be knowledgeable about all aspects of the environment and activities you provide. h. Equipment and Tools Availability need to be equal to the needs of the event. i. Materials and Expendables such as Steel, flux, Oil, Water, Punch Lube, needs to be available. j. Fuel such as Coal, Coke, or Propane needs to be available. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Note: I am guessing that about eight to ten years have passes sense I have attended a fairly large blacksmithing event. My experience with attending a blacksmith “Hammer-in” type of event was limited to observing a small group of blacksmiths that met about every three months if I remember correctly! Program schedule and agenda Normal Activities usually included the following: 1. Cost to Attend: The only charge (fee) was to be a paid-up member. 2. Main Activity: One of the members of the group would demonstrate how to make something. 3. Food was available such as a bowl of stew and a can of pop for purchase fee. And sometime they would do something special as to have a group come in and cook with Dutch Ovens. 4. They conducted an Iron in the hat auction after the main activity was over. 5. They also had tailgate sales before and after the main demonstration. 6. At certain point the Liberian would try to get back books and videos from people who had not returned them. 7. Then elite would meet and to discuss “I do not know what’. A few times I went to an annual Training type of event where a fee was charged to see a paid demonstrator, as well as membership fee’s being brought up to date, plus the additional cost to eat. The side activities were about the same the other meetings, but at times everyone was invited to do a hands-on activity at the forge. On occasion I have heard people on I Forge Iron talk about “Open Forge” time. I would bet it means what is says. That is all I can remember about what takes place a Hammer-in, Gathering of blacksmiths, Convention, Conference, or what may be called by any other name that is applicable! So I would summarize the outline of the proceedings (not in order) as follows; 1. Identification and registration, organization dues collected and charging procedures. 2. Tailgate sales underway prior to demonstration. 3. Demonstration. (Tail-gate action stops) 4. Lunch (Tail-gate sales go back in action) 5. Back to demonstration if required. (Tail-gate action stops) Or 5a. Open Forge 6. Liberian activity. 7. Iron in the hat auction. 8. End of Meeting 9. Tailgate sales get back into action. 10. Elite meet. 11. I go home. The intent of this post is to aid someone else with some ideas who may want to host a Hammer-in. I invite anyone who would provide experience and useful information to add to this post or please amend for correctness if I have miss-spoken. Ted Throckmorton

Thank You for the good news up-date! Your report leaves me with this thought ~ Isaiah 53:4-5

Thank You Rich, Voice of Wisdom! I will speak openly and boldly because I would not want anyone else to experience the same dilemma I was faced with at one time of not knowing if I was going to get my next breath or live through the night. It is real, and for the most part preventable with appropriate education. The “Good Health” of “I Forge Iron” is dependent on different people at different times who will inject an appropriate statement of caution about safety issues. I consider it a blessing when a skilled member see’s any possibility that a safety issue has not been addressed or not being addressed properly and thoroughly, that will step up and become the voice of wisdom. Today Rich stepped up to the plate, Thank You Rich! Combining the teaching of skills and procedures of blacksmithing coupled with the associated safety applications just makes good sense and is wisdom in action. I believe that without teaching (in balance) the skills and techniques of blacksmithing coupled with safety applications in our posts are as risky as teaching a UFC Fighter how to “punch only”. By not teaching how to block and defend against his opponent’s punches, kicks and take downs, a person may get buy for a while with limited information, but it will catch up with them in time. I stand Guilty of “Linier Thinking” and not considering who may read my response about coal fumes. As the post was heading at the time of my post, I was only thinking inside of the “BOX” of thought (you know! the box Glenn tells us not to get in, so we don’t have to think out of the box) and emphasizing products of combustion of coal ONLY, and then talked about using propane as though it was flawless! I never once mentioned or warned about any safety aspects that should be considered when using propane, its use or abuse. The Danger is that an inexperienced person, who is unaware of issues that may develop with the use propane, may possibly interrupt the lack of a warning about propane as that it is completely without safety considerations, which there is many! So I feel an apology is due from me (and I do) to all who may have been disarmed by my lack of being more specific because I know better. I recognize that this is lengthy entry, but just so you will know why I am so willing to clarify how important it is to include the safety aspects along with the technology (in balance) of blacksmithing follows; At one time I had to pay the brutal price of trusting uninformed people who talked as though they were authorities on the subject. So here is a question that I think YOU should ask yourself. How important is it to protect myself from fumes or products of combustion of any type? My answer: It is as important to me as life. I have learned the hard way that if I do not take personal responsibility to protect myself and or anyone who may rely on my judgment or knowledge that a crippling or deadly results may occur. Avoiding fumes and products of combustion is important enough to me that here are some of the precautions I take to protect myself; #1. I use a “Fume Extractor” that cost nearly $2,000.00 dollars whenever I weld. #2. I use a special air-filter mask when I weld. I will not mention the name etc. #3. I have bought a special air-pump to bring air into my mask when I Tig weld. #4. I designed my new blacksmith shop specifically with the roof designed for maximum ventilation. #5. The windows are specifically located and will open so the prevailing wind will naturally vent my shop when I am working. #6. The location of my propane tank is located outside. “The shape of my shop was designed so the location of the propane tank would be placed in accordance with our local ordinances. #7. The propane is hooked up according to the legal requirements in my area for reasons of safety. Note: I will not mention what they are due to the new I Forge Iron policy of not talking specifically about laws. #8. Anything that produces “Products of Combustion” be it heat, fumes or grindings, I will do my best to protect myself from the exposure by wearing safety gear that includes protecting my eyes (hard to see out of a wooden eye), ears, inhaling/exhaling nose and mouth, hands and feet, and my body if need be. Common sense and experience needs to be applied 100% of the time. #9. Situational Awareness: The location of where you are doing your work needs to always be considered. Just one example: If you are welding (installing a railing). Have you taken means to make sure that a child will not walk up on you and get flashed from welding? Consider Ventilation, Fire or explosive potential, Eye flash and Legal aspects of where you’re working, just to name a few. Without going into more boring detail, I can tell you that I have seen animals suffer because they did not have ear protection or eye protection and are exposed to blacksmithing and welding environments. Be aware of where you are working and how the potential effect of what you are doing may impact others or the environment. Unfortunately I have seen it happen over and over again where highly skilled and less skilled contributors to different threads (me) at times get so involved debating about some of the various skills and procedure issues, that the reasonable and necessary accompanying issues of safety were not addressed for the considered and the benefit of new craftsman. If you read this far ~ ~ Well! ~ I am not sure what time Dr. Phil comes on in your area! PS. Robakyo; I do not know anything about Charcoal is why I never mentioned anything about it! - - I am glad you did. That is what this site is about!! The very best to all of you! Ted Throckmorton