Jack Evers Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I recently talked to a blacksmith who had rebuilt an anvil face with thermite. Anyone ever do this or hear of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I think termite will burn the anvil in ways that would render it almost useless. That stuff will cut through a railroad track in 30 seconds just about:o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip in china Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have used thermite and would take some convincing that what he has told you is true. It might be possible but the chances of you getting it right rather than destroying the anvil in any workable form are about one in a million! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blafen Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I have seen people weld railroad track with thermite before, it may be possible to reface a horribly worn anvil face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 A thermite weld doesn't work that way, it isn't going to lay down in a nice flat face for you. I have been wrong often enough to be willing to be convinced though. So. . . Ask him for documentation next time you see him. Pictures of the process and results would be nice. Otherwise write it off as an entertaining tale for around the pot belly stove on a cold winter's day. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jura T Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Could it be that he attached a new face to the anvil with thermite welding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 That's possible, there are thermite sheets for welding. Okay, move the claim to the "plausible" column. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce wilcock Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 if it was a very small anvil you might be able to dump a thermit furnace onto the top with it in a sand mould ,the cleaning up would be another story,it would take some setting up and be big, the rail setup only melts a small amount ,and isnt cheap to use , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce wilcock Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 there is around 40 lb of casenite case hardning powder in coroding tins around the smithy and i havnt used aney for years ,rather than dump it , i have thought of setting up a fire outside stand a old anvil with the face down get it red then dump the casenite in the fire cover it over with coke blow it up and leave it i think i could keep it hot for a day or so ,.Now the 50.000.000 $ question do you think it would take up the case hardning . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ok, After some reseach i found that thermite welding is being done as we speak and has been done for a few decades at least if not more. The main thing is controling the reaction. When the reaction occurs. it produces molten metal at about 4100 degrees or so. From what i seen they take a crucible with a hole on the bottom or a slot that is above the joint to be welded. The crucible is filled with thermite and lit, as it burns , It pours moulten metal in the joint and melts them together, effectively welding the joint! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr d Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I know we're all used to working with fire and extreme temperatures, but thermite is some NASTY stuff. You have to remember a thermite reaction can't be smothered like a normal fire. If you're not experienced with this process then I'd say "pass". The best case scenario would a chunk of metal with massive slag inclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Thermite welding is done under very controlled conditions by people who know what they are doing. If you must persist in this endevoir, please clear everybody out of the immediate area that way if you become a candidate for a Darwin Award you don't have a group rate and take a bunch of people with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Evers Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 I had no intention of doing it, just asking a question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azIRonSmith Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Like most things, it's possible if you know what you are doing. You still come up with the same problem all anvil makers run against: the heat treatment. When they built the Arizona Cardinals stadium, they were thermite welding the rail that they used to move the grass in and out of the stadium. When you weld a piece of medium/high carbon or tool steel to a anvil body, you will have a soft face. You would then need to heat treat which is the hard part. If you want to see a good article on the SOFA 2008 (Quad states) demo of thermite welding, goto anvilfire.com and check out the anvilfire news Edition 42. It has a good write up on a demo they did and will be informative to anyone interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlewolfsmithy Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I did some reading on thermite and how to make your own, i left out the first few strps, but read step 4 Step 2 Place the thermite in a safe area, away from everything. For added safety, contain the thermite in a clay pot, which won't burn when the thermite does. Step3 Heat the fuse strip with a propane torch. Step 4 Run like xxxx. Step 4 would be enough for me, i read that thermite burns at 4000 degrees, think that will melt just about everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlion Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 at my buddys farm we blew a porceline tub twice as high at the forest and the tub probably weighs 160 lbs so i dont think it would be able to resurface an anvil or atleast not in any striaght lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Bennett Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I'm going to try it. It might take 2 runs. You just need to make a form, put the anvil on it's side and pre heat the joint/face with a big rose bud. That's all. I have a favorite Fisher that needs a new face. I'll post it if y'all want. ... when I get around to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Bennett, I hope you dont destroy the anvil! It would be a shame:( Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Bennett Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Bennett, I hope you dont destroy the anvil! It would be a shame:( Good luck Thanks. Yeah, me too. That's my favorite anvil. Going to use 4340 sheet. 1" thick. I got the refractory down to use for the form. Should take about an 8 pound charge, to produce a 4 pound weld. I can always do 2 runs, if there isn't enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 you should Post pics of it here so we could see how bad it is. It cant be that bad. Remember youl need to harden the whole surface afterwards because your plate will probably be normalized and way softer than the original face. Your undertaking is out of reach for alot of people i hope you get all the information you need before even thinking about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Bennett Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 you should Post pics of it here so we could see how bad it is. It cant be that bad. Remember youl need to harden the whole surface afterwards because your plate will probably be normalized and way softer than the original face. Your undertaking is out of reach for alot of people i hope you get all the information you need before even thinking about it. Those are good points! I chose 4340 because even in it's annealed state, it's quite stiff. Heck, even at forging temps, it's quite stiff. As for the information, I'm going on something like my 275th pound of thermite over the years. Lots of trial and almost as much error.;) An occasional success, here, and there. I do , finally, have the refractory down though. Took awhile.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
element Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I hate to be annoying lol but can you describe whats wrong with the anvil face? Broken edges and hammer marks? Or post pictures just for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Bennett Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) The steel face is awful thin. Down to about 1/8 inch. A cracked edge on 1 corner. It's a block anvil. Lots of rebound and no ring. Typical Fisher. I hope to keep it's personality. EDIT: Can't find a pic of the old girl. Here is a place to go, to see some of my more, refined thermite escapades.... YouTube - steelace1p1's Channel Edited April 1, 2009 by J. Bennett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I'd be worried about the thermite melting the cast iron off the bottom of that Fisher's face plate myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Bennett Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I'd be worried about the thermite melting the cast iron off the bottom of that Fisher's face plate myself. Yeah, I'll have to keep the pre heat to a minimum so it sucks the heat out of the weld faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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