Mulciber Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I am moving mid January. I'm having trouble finding a suitable place to forge. I've been avoiding 2 car garages that are within 30ft of the neighbors house. Question is, how much space do you really need to forge without the neighbors complaining. I plan on doing one of the following to keep the anvil from ringing, a sand filled base or a stump with chains and a magnet. I use a propane forge and wouldn't be working past 9pm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysdexik Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 I was going to post about sound proofing my building! Does anybody know if wool bats or solid foam are better, at Brown Lennox the British version of OSHA made us mount the anvils on sorbothane pads, they still ring but it doesn't transmit to the floor etc. Do the chains work? I'm sorry for horning in on your post, but it is sorta similar. Good luck with your move - STRETCH - I didn't, and I am still stiff as a board after two weeks! Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironrosefarms Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 (edited) Mulciber, without a magnet or chains on my anvil my neighbor claims he can hear my anvil at a 1/4 of a mile. This being said, I still don't use anything to deaden the sound as I can hear his machinery, parties and mobile home tenants as well, so I just don't worry about it much. (After he called my wife and cussed her out for her Christmas decorations several years ago I pretty much lost interest in his wants or desires) Lysdexik, Sound waves are not easy to understand all the time. Different sound waves (Highs or lows) travel and are absorbed or bounced differently. If a neighbor has a two or three walled car port it may act as a bass trap and rattle them good yet they may not hear the ting of the anvil? Yet the high tingy sounds will travel farther... A good thing to remember is that sound waves bounce but can also be transmitted through solid objects, most any hard surface is going to bounce or transmit sound. If you look into sound deadening insulation it tends to be very porous and most intend to absorb the energy. "sound deadening" insulation is becoming more available especially in the bigger cities and do work to varying extents, some insulation materials come with sound deadening rates given on the package. "Wool bats as you call it may or may not have a great deal of sound deadening abilility but in comparison to a solid foam (with some exception of specialized materials made for this and used in many audio studios) will tend to help where as the solid foam may allow the sound to transmit. Another thing to think about when looking at a neighborhood or even a specific building is hollow spaces can act as amplifiers of certain sounds, they can act like the body of a acoustic guitar. I had a floor in a church sound booth that acted this way, we tried packing it with fiberglass insulation with little results, what finally helped was we filled it with sand bags. The sound energy did not have enough "strength" to move the mass of the sand and thus no longer made the floor "boom". Ok I'll stop rambling but if I can help in any way let me know... I have some technical papers somewhere that go into a lot of big worded details some place if you want anything like that I'll dig for them... James Edited December 29, 2008 by ironrosefarms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 To 'soundproof a room you can build 6" wall with the studs being standard 2x4s, stager each stud from side to side then insulate. the sound does not travel as well due to the fact the studs are not connected to both sides allowing the energy to pass through. Obviously this is not a perfect fix for every sound absorbing need but it does work for a lot of needs. I have had better luck with anchoring my anvils to the base/stand with chains, front and rear, with a piece of 3/4" plywood between the anvil and stand. I use either a 180# HayBudden or my 127# SISCO. Both ring like church bells if not anchored, only a dull sound with anchoring as discribed. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulciber Posted December 29, 2008 Author Share Posted December 29, 2008 (edited) To 'soundproof a room you can build 6" wall with the studs being standard 2x4s, stager each stud from side to side then insulate. the sound does not travel as well due to the fact the studs are not connected to both sides allowing the energy to pass through. Obviously this is not a perfect fix for every sound absorbing need but it does work for a lot of needs. I have had better luck with anchoring my anvils to the base/stand with chains, front and rear, with a piece of 3/4" plywood between the anvil and stand. I use either a 180# HayBudden or my 127# SISCO. Both ring like church bells if not anchored, only a dull sound with anchoring as discribed. Good luck. So that being said, do you think I could run the operation out of a standard 2 car garage? I'm finding it hard to find a place that works out well. I'm either out of my price range (1600 a month), I'm taking a serious compromise on my living standards to have a shop close or I'm gonna have to live too far away from my day job to have a commute less than 45 minutes. There are a ton of places that would work out if I could work out of a garage. I just don't want to move into a place with the intention of smithing from the garage and then have a ton of issues. Here's what I'm looking at but the house is like 8-900 sq ft and is divided kinda strangely. It's more garage than I need and has 80 amps of 220v. Super nice for smithing but a little less than perfect on the house end.http://denver.craigslist.org/apa/963294729.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As far as soundproofing goes, airtight helps an awful lot. Another thing that helps keep the sound from traveling is diffusion. Trees, one of those military camoflage nets, corrugated metal with spray on insulation sprayed on are a few examples. The idea is that you want to make the sound bounce in a bunch of different angles so that it is not focused. Edited December 29, 2008 by Mulciber added link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalMuncher Posted December 29, 2008 Share Posted December 29, 2008 My Brother is a musician and soundproofed his studio with a kind of foam, he glued it onto plywood sheets so he could take them off if he wanted to. But chains will work though dude, I dont have issues with my neighbors....that or they are deaf already! Hahaha. Good luck with the move! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironrosefarms Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 The foam he used is likely a isolatory foam made for sound absorption. Do be careful in the process of insulating and sound proofing that you don't cause a serious fire hazard... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 i had a shop right on the property line with the neibors garage 10 ft away and had no problems ... but if you get the wrong neibor it wont matter what you do they will bitch! if you keep reasonable hours you are not going to make more noise than your average backyard mechanic ... i wouldnt worry about it too much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Dean Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 The foam he used is likely a isolatory foam made for sound absorption. Do be careful in the process of insulating and sound proofing that you don't cause a serious fire hazard... Excellent point! Have you ever seen foam burn? FAST, HOT, and TONS OF TOXIC FUMES. I would NOT use it for soundproofing a shop with open flames! Music is hot but not THAT hot. Bunches of folks have portions of their garage dedicated to a shop of some sort and a smithy in MHO is an excellent use for a garage! You would be surprised at how little noise you will make that will penatrate the walls of your garage. And if the neighbors start fussing...make them something and give it to them! Peace offerings get good milage.:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Skinner Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Helping out the neighbors goe's along way. I give them free eggs from my chickens. Weld items for free and help the neighborhood kids with bike repairs and filling up tires with my compressor. Now and then a neighbor gets a free artsy item I could not sell. I also try and watch what I do noise wise. I live in town but have a lot twice the size of everyone else, so there is a bit of space between us. I work midday and shut down before folks get home from work. During the summer I won't work past 8pm. I find the biggest noise makers for me are my hand grinders. My anvil is 165# JHM with a chain wrapped around it several times and anchored on both front and back of the anvil. Now if I could just sneak in a power hammer!:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 There is a material called sonex that works very well. Homasote is another one. Spelling might not be correct. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverDamForge Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) How much space you need depends on a lot of things. My lean-to is about 12 x 14 and half of it is filled with junk. The forge is a couple feet from the anvil which is a couple feet from the vise. Luckily I don't have to worry about noise, my nearest neighbors are 75-100 yds away and I usually forge in the daytime when they're not home. My Fisher anvil does not ring, I can hear the hammer ring a little. Low frequencies travel around corners more and carry farther. Do be careful about flammable insulation, remember the nightclub fire (last year, I think) where the band set off fireworks - several were killed IIRC. Good Luck! Edited December 30, 2008 by BeaverDamForge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 (edited) It's always a good idea to stay on good terms with the neighbors if possible. and not being obnoxiously noisy is high on the priority list. Deadening your anvil's ring is a good start followed by forgetting about the tap your anvil with the hammer myth. It'll be much more quiet if you only strike hot metal. A decoupled wall like Thomas describes is very efficient and you can simulate it by hanging a fabric curtain between your anvil and the wall closest to the neighbor. Moving pads are excellent being multi-layered and quilted. Fire precautions are a must of course. Something besides insulated and finished interior walls to look for when garage shopping is a nice solid wood or cinderblock wall between it and the neighbor's place. Wooden sound barriers are very effective noise abatement as can be seen along highways. On the other hand the best sound insulation in the world won't do a bit of good if the garage door is open. However, just closing the doors and windows will make a HUGE difference, especially for high freq sound. Of course this brings up the issue of CO and anoxia. (hypoxia?) Oxygen depletion from the forge burners. Consideration goes a long long ways too as does a little PR. If your neighbor gardens you might give him/er a couple of your "experimental" garden tools, plant hangers, etc. Doing small scale metal repairs and knife sharpening gratis is how I managed to forge and fabricate in a trailer court for nearly 18 years without a complaint. Frosty Edited December 30, 2008 by Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Trez Cole Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 I would have to agree with Audragon My neighbors are all intrested in what I am doing and stop in to see what I am working on. no one has complained some times I work until 10:00 pm. Keep your friends close and your enemy closer Just keep them all guessing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Over here there's a TV show called New Inventors. Anyway, friends have told me that one of the finalists was a new sound proofing material that is several times better than than the competition, cheap,and also flame retardant. Since this thread reminded me I mean to find it, I went & found it. Here's the link: New Inventors: QuietWave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrynjr Posted December 30, 2008 Share Posted December 30, 2008 Chains on my old Harbor Freight anvil helped deaden the sound. I went with a sand filled box for my Nimba and it is very quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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