On 7/19/2025 at 4:57 PM, Frosty said:

We often disagree but a lot of advancements have come about from our polite arguments.

True, Frosty, 

But what I like best is picking your brains, as for instance:

"Huffing is typically caused when back pressure puts the flame out, causing pressure to drop in the chamber which lets the burner induce combustion air again and it relights only to repeat the process." 

Beautifully put; I will use that one 

 

Well, as much as I would have enjoyed using a forge I made myself, I got to thinking…. I like to fish, so I bought a boat… Making a boat would be fun, but I like to fish...

So, I bought this

ATkrou two burner gas forge.

I only had time to put it together and crank it up once.  I stuck a file in it and in less than two min it was turning red.  In Four min the part inside the forge was red.  

If I take the hook on this Iron molding thing I’ll build the next one… 

Thanks for all the information.  I will be put to use someday...

 

Alan

 

 

That forge should do well for you. For efficiency, effectiveness and most importantly SAFETY's sake you really should rigidize the liner, kiln wash it and replace the heavy split brick on the floor. Rigidizing ceramic blanket refractory encapsulates the fibers so when they get HOT and vitrify the fibers don't break off and end up in your lungs where they can cause serious damage, thing mesotheleoma. A water setting hard refractory provides a concrete hard / strong inner surface to support work and provides a thermal battery so to speak. The hard refractory absorbs energy from the flame but doesn't conduct it well because the far side is insulated efficiently so it super heats an incandescent yellow and radiates the IR energy into the forge chamber heating your work.. 

The burner flames do NOT heat the steel directly in any meaningful way, it heats the refractory liner which re-radiates it as IR to work for you.

A water setting high alumina castable refractory like Kast O Lite 30li troweled on between 1/4" - 3/8" on walls, roof and door is a 2,600f rated refractory that is reasonably resistant to flux and mechanical erosion and an excellent IR re-radiator. 

A kiln wash provides a final layer of armor protecting the hard refractory, first from being dissolved by forge welding fluxes which tend to dissolve hard fire brick like hot water on a candy bar and trapping energy to be radiated back into the chamber.

A zirconium oxide kiln wash is very effective, zirconia is pretty inert at high temperatures and basically laughs at the environment inside a propane forge. It's also nearly as hard as diamond and a terrible conductor. Again preventing energy from being conducted to the next layer quickly so it forms a flame face on the inner surface of the forge that traps and re-radiates IR to your work.

A 3/8" layer of Kastolite 30 makes a forge floor you have to deliberately TRY to damage and is easily patchable if you are that abusive.

Frosty The Lucky.

I’ll get the rigidizer for sure.  

Do you have a preferred supplier for those items?

PM me if it’s not allowed to post them directly in the thread.

 

Alan

 

I use a colloidal silica I got from a local plastics and fiberglass supplier. It's also called "fumed silica" and has particles so small they'll stay suspended in clean fresh water indefinitely. 

If you buy a commercial rigidizer there is no telling what you'll get or what it's for and worse they almost ALL have a limited shelf life some only a couple months. There are as many different reasons and ways to stabilize insulating fiber products as there are places to use them. Masonry suppliers carry it to thicken plaster of Paris for moldings and detailed work. Dry colloidal silica powder will be good forever unless the can rusts through and it blows or washes away.

This is the time calling suppliers on the telephone works best. Do NOT contact them online you'll most likely be ignored. When you talk to people do NOT tell them what you want to do, everybody has ideas without knowing diddly about what you're doing and confuse heck out of new folk.

Were I making the search, "Hello, Bellicose Bison ceramic supply, how can I help you?" Me, "Do you carry colloidal silica powder?" . . "We have a wide range of silica products, can I interest you in . . . " . . "No thank you, just the powder. If you don't carry it, do you know who does?"

Finding things without knowing where to look is an art but it can be fun. Do NOT hesitate to take notes and I highlight numbers in the phone book. This is also the time where a paper phone book works worlds better than internet searches, the only time you'll see a "You might be interested in," type ad is when Your eye strays on the page.

It can be like Christmas morning for someone who likes to talk to people as much as I do.

Frosty The Lucky.

The last "phone book" that was distributed in my town was years and years ago, and it was the size of a small, paperback book.  That is such an anachronism, like the pager I wore when my wife was pregnant.  Where do you even get a phonebook anymore?

One other thing that needs mentioned, that receptionist that answers the phone provably knows more about the goings on and what the company has to offer than the owner or GM of that company. 

Absolutely and s/he has info on where it Can be found in her rolodex. Always be nice to the receptionist!

Frosty The Lucky. 

Always be nice to the receptionists, even those who are too young to know what a rolodex is!

Unless they're a new hire they'll know who to ask. I only mentioned rolodex to see if ANYBODY on the forum knew what one was, I don't think any office has had one in 30+ years. Then again AI has arrived to screw up even the simplest filing system. <shudder>

Frosty The Lucky.

On 7/22/2025 at 9:39 PM, Frosty said:

I'd REALLY like to visit a web comic author and machinist a ways south of here

If you ever do go visit Doc, give him my thanks. I'm still reading the Whiteboard every day since you tipped me off to it and have enjoyed the latest chapter.

Will do. Thomas Powers turned me onto The White Board and Schlock Mercenary. Schlock is no longer being written but I get antsy and have considered emailing Doc about taking weekends off. 

How would you get Packrat and Doc's tach vest and gear through the gate at the speed he's moving? Hmmmmm?

I'm REALLY wondering what twist Doc has for us, want to guess when or where Doc, packy and stuff will return, together, scattered across time space? Or do you remember the foreshadowing?

Frosty The Lucky.

My boss still uses a rolodex. 

We have a fixture we use on the grinder we call either a roll dex or uni dex depending on who is speaking, not to be confused with a spindex, but i was going with the CNC dept. foreman into the tool room telling him i would just use the roll dex on the grinder to do some work for him. Until i pulled the fixture out of the tool box he was trying to figure out how i was going to use a rolodex on the grinder. 

28 minutes ago, BillyBones said:

he was trying to figure out how i was going to use a rolodex on the grinder. 

The same way you use playing cards on bicycle's spokes to makes it sound like a motor cycle. Jiminy Cricket Billy, E V E R Y B O D Y knows that! 

Frosty The Lucky.

 

I saw a little girl on a bike the other day that had a couple dozen little gizmos attached to the spokes, each with a little tuned metal tongue that played a different note as it was plucked by the wheel's fork. Quite delightful.

Somebody had a good idea, that's the only way to play notes sequentially. Cool.

Frosty The Lucky.

Alan,

Because you posted photos of this forge, I think some evaluation of it, for all the other people who are trying to decide between it and a host of other commercial forges, is appropriate.

First of all, its shape is excellent; use of stainless steel is excellent; and their choice of sheet metal thickness is excellent (neither too thin or too thick). Every other thing in or on a forge is changeable, but a second rate shell (forge body) would be bad news.

And speaking of changeable,  the first change you may decide to make (after all of Frosty's recommendations) is to its front end. By removing the pin from its hinge, and removing it from the forge. You may then replace it with a movable stack of firebricks, or change it, by cutting a small opening in it for your heating stock to pass through, and mounting two flat bars on its bottom side, so that it can be placed near to the forge opening, to allow super heated exhaust gases to escape, will reflecting radiant heat back into the forge interior.

Your description of how 'well' it heats, coupled with the size of the burner openings in the forge shell, tells me that you will eventually want to change out its present burners for one of the burners you see discussed here on IFI; burners are last on the list, because I believe all those other changes to be more important. Also, good burners come and go in the market place. Finally, making all of the recommended changes in your forge, is going to change you quit a bit, making burner choices much easier to get right.

Luck to you and all the others who buy this forge.

On 7/19/2025 at 4:57 PM, Frosty said:

We often disagree but a lot of advancements have come about from our polite arguments.

And still do. I am still learning subtleties from Frosty

Ooh SNAP! Good one Mike you ARE coming along, have a cookie. 

Frosty The Lucky.

Subtleties that need subtitles.

10 hours ago, Frosty said:

h SNAP! Good one Mike you ARE coming along, have a cookie. 

The cookie monster thanks you, and will comply

Indeed, substantially subtle subtitled subjective rejoinders are desirable if not as much fun. Then again we could start a bold new section called, "fun in italics." 

Hmmmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

 

If I were to start a new thread it would probably be about doing tricks with torches...don't think that would go over very well 

Tricks with Torches not going over very well is an easy fix, throw them higher. 

More thoughts about burner applications of course. Discussing the things might be a way to get people thinking about the importance of precision. I'll try to curb the tendency of new folk try applying a micrometer to a horse shoe. I'm one to speak though, when we built this house you could pull 3-4-5 on any corner and it was within 1/64th." I've been told that's a bit OCD but when I told Dad I built the house to a 64th. he naturally assumed I meant One, sixtyfour thousandths. To Dad a 64thou spec was slop.

Growing up having to think in so many different scales must've had an effect. Wonder if it was big or small?

Frosty The Lucky.

If you were going to start a thread for "fun in italics", the subtle thing to do would just to call it "fun".