hibjib10987 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I am pretty interested in history and on IFI there seems to be a wide variety of smiths from all over the country and world. I was wondering about Genreal jargon in blacksmithing and maybe a few phrases that are specific to your region or heritage. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 AlahPah! (spelling?) Inupiat word for COLD! Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan W Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 !!@*%#^%$#-explitive deleted. Used pretty much all over the country during any number of blacksmithing operations From hitting your thumb with a hammer, to having the tip burn off your high carbon blade because you lost concentration for one moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 Over at anvilfire there is an international glossary of blacksmithing and metalworking terms that has entries for: English, Latin, German, Dutch, Afrikaans, Portuguese, Hungarian, French, Italian, Spanish and Swedish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibjib10987 Posted November 1, 2008 Author Share Posted November 1, 2008 Thank you. I agree whole with the @#$%** being universal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griz1955 Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 uffda- one word that covers many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayco Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 Hibjib,there isn't a lot of blacksmithing jargon used in my area. Of course it could be because there aren't any smiths in my neighborhood except for me. When I question older folks about the local history of blacksmithing, I encounter an absence of information. The one term that often comes up is "beating out" something.....as in beating out the edge of a hoe, axe ,or mattock. What we would call 'drawing out a taper'. Even the word blacksmith is mostly missing from the local vocabulary. Folks will say, "He had a shop", or "He made stuff on an anvil" The funny thing is......when you mention a 'shop' to older folks, they always mean a 'blacksmith's shop'.........not a tire shop.....not a sewing shop..... But, they never use the word "Blacksmith"! By the way, that's a great avatar pic.....I know that guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurlyGeorge Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 JAFO, I think you hit the nail on the head, (pun intended), with that one. I love it!!! James, I think I know that guy, too. We went to different schools together! LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Every profession has a jargon - "fuller" means something to a smith, both as a verb and as a noun. Telling a machinist to go fuller a 3/4" groove on a 1" picket will only draw blank stares. My grandfather worked in a big agricultural shop in the 1930's that employed many men -very little ornamental work was done, only horseshoeing, repair and rebuild of plows, wagons, etc. When I showed him a tenon set, or monkey tool, he remarked it was for "monkey work", which by his definition was anything ornamental (he also turned his nose up a little when he said it). When I probed a bit more, he said the less skilled smiths were called monkeys in the shop, and not capable of forging and tempering or building something as complicated as a road plow, so were consigned to "easy" work like iron fences and such (of course, he never saw any of Yellin's work but right or wrong, that was his criteria for judging a craftsman during the Depression here is Texas). So, I think a "monkey tool" can be considered jargon, as can a multitude of other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Well, the term "pattern welding" may be of interest. My humble understanding is that the term evolved to encompass the modern development of creating visible patterns in steel/iron by different steel/iron materials together.... and to indicate that the process was not done in an area of the world that would properly allow it to be referred by the term Damascus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Well a whole lot of the wootz damascus steel wasn't made in Damascus either; it was just traded through Damascus. Central Asia was the hotbed of Wootz making it seems. Pattern Welding came in through people trying to come up with a term to specify which of the two types of materials that have both been called Damascus for centuries that wasn't wootz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibjib10987 Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Every profession has a jargon - "fuller" means something to a smith, both as a verb and as a noun. Telling a machinist to go fuller a 3/4" groove on a 1" picket will only draw blank stares. My grandfather worked in a big agricultural shop in the 1930's that employed many men -very little ornamental work was done, only horseshoeing, repair and rebuild of plows, wagons, etc. When I showed him a tenon set, or monkey tool, he remarked it was for "monkey work", which by his definition was anything ornamental (he also turned his nose up a little when he said it). When I probed a bit more, he said the less skilled smiths were called monkeys in the shop, and not capable of forging and tempering or building something as complicated as a road plow, so were consigned to "easy" work like iron fences and such (of course, he never saw any of Yellin's work but right or wrong, that was his criteria for judging a craftsman during the Depression here is Texas). So, I think a "monkey tool" can be considered jargon, as can a multitude of other words. I often work with Solvarr's shop in raleigh and he calls me the forge monkey and with in he historical reencating group i am in i am know as the forge monkey. So i could see where that term comes from though i am not an inferior smith. On a seperate note. I think it is interesting that almost every town had to have a blacksmith and yet the jargon died. I guess the traditions tend to die when there is no one to carry them on. BUt you would think that with so many smiths there would be a good deal of "lost" jargon. I was thinking about this question and something hit me. The phrase " strike while the iron is hot". I can't believe I didn't think of that sooner. That is total blacksmith jargon that carried over to the whole community. Thank you all for your input and if you got any more phrases or jargon keep posting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unkle spike Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 "pour the coal to it" that is when you don't grab a scoop or a handful, you pick up the whole bucket and dump it on the fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Colloquial phrases and jargon are related but slightly different. "Losing your temper" is a blacksmith based colloquialism that any smith can relate to - you've worked on that knife all day and then you lose it while tempering, so you get angry. This term has moved into the language and anyone who speaks English fluently understands the definition. An example of jargon might be the word "flash", which is related to various types of molding or forging in a die (it's that little fin on the parting line that occurs where the mold or die halves meet). The average Joe on the street will have no idea what flash means in this application so it qualifies as jargon. Many parts of the anvil are technical jargon: face, heel, horn, waist, hardy, pritchel - all mean something to the smith but would be lost to most of the population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 HW do we know which way "temper" went? It might have been used first in the general world and then be applied to smithing as we have "temperate" climates and well tempered claviers and the theory of humours predates the hardening of steel. Any body got a full copy of OED to see how it originally was used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Thompson Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 'Fettle' is another metalworking term that has found it's way into common use. Steel that breaks easily is known as 'short' and crumbly biscuits are called 'shortbread'; is there a connection there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoky Rick Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Gobs of folks around here (Northern Illinois) say things like "too many irons in the fire" and not many of them really know where the saying came from. Can't think of any others right off. Smoky Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 Thomas, here is the provenance I found. My compact OED cites the etymology for 'temper' in this context as: 1. "to make (steel) hard and elastic" is from c.1381. 2. "angry state of mind" (for bad temper) in 1828. The word entered English around 1000 AD and originally meant to divide or duly portion. The latter one defining anger actually sounds kind of late to me but that's what the book says. (Sorry, I was an English major in college.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 what's the back derivation of it? Latin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 HW do we know which way "temper" went? It might have been used first in the general world and then be applied to smithing as we have "temperate" climates and well tempered claviers and the theory of humours predates the hardening of steel. Any body got a full copy of OED to see how it originally was used? Do you have ANY idea how big the entry for "temper" is in the OED? I have the OED Compact with the super duper magnifying glass and the entry is 3 1/2 pages long! Not pages in the OED Compact but regular pages. . . Still! The first entry and etiology says it means proportion as in well made steel, well balanced person, etc. I'd look for the complete etiology but I'm out of practice using the thing, it's hard to read even with the magnifier and it's . . . HEAVY! Okay, snivvle over. I hoisted the thing onto a stool and put a bright light over it so I could read it without straining my eyes or back. Heck, my surgeon would have a hissy fit if he caught me lifting the thing. Did I mention it's HEAVY? I don't read old or middle english well and there are listings dating back to 1384 Chaucer referring to the temper of a man and steel. Like I say, I don't read the language of the day well but that's what I gleaned from it. Now to go rest my aching back. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 what's the back derivation of it? Latin? Yes, I should have noted that it comes from the Latin, "temperare". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 And I should've read your post before posting my response. Then again I went to all the work of lifting that HEAVY sucker down and strained my eyes reading the entry. Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 I feel your pain! We had a full size OED in college (two volumes) and I'm quite sure each one weighed at least 50 lbs - maybe more. The librarians had them permanently mounted to a lazy susan table so no one could drop and bust the bindings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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