I'm picking up a propane forge this summer. Its the last bit I need to do a little shade tree iron work. 

 The projects I want to do are mostly simple 18th century  camp accouchements, so S hooks, trivets, fire irons, tent pegs and the like.

One of the things that I want to avoid is using mild steel bar stock for  everything.  I've managed to collect a good pile of wrought iron  scrap and would like to use this as raw material.  

I understand that wrought iron needs to be worked hotter than mild steel and needs to be very hot to weld.

So my question is whether a one burner propane stove will put out enough heat to say straighten and draw out a  1/2 inch chain link or a 2 1/2 x 3/8 chunk of wagon rim? 

Or forge weld 1/4" material for fabricating kitchen gadgets?

If not, will a 2 burner forge be sufficient?   I was thinking about getting a "Volcano" brand forge.  Are there any options that would be better for the application? Thanks, Woody

 

The simple answer is Probably.

The more complicated answer is that it depends on the forge and the burner. Specifically, does the burner generate enough heat for the forge's volume, and is the forge sufficiently well insulated? 

I've heard different reports of the Mr. Volcano forge, ranging from "quite good" to "the quality has declined". I don't have one myself, so I'm in no position to offer specific advice.

I have a single burner gas forge that runs off a 3/4" Frosty T burner, and while I haven't tried welding with it, it certainly gets plenty hot enough to forge wrought iron.

Finally, you can probably get more value from that vise as a vise than as raw material. How good a shape is the screw in?

As John says a single burner propane forge is more than up to wrought iron provided it's well made and tuned properly. I have to keep mine turned down to prevent sparklers but mine is home made. 

I HIGHLY recommend you clean up and mount that vise, if for nothing else than resale. 

I think you meant to use a word other than "accouchements". To quote Inigo Montoya from "The Princess Bride", "I don't think that word means what you think it means".

https://www.oed.com/dictionary/accouchement_n?tl=true

If you did use it intentionally I'm pretty sure we're going to have fun with puns. I can think of ways to fit in contextually with your question but it'd be a subtle reach, sending folks to the dictionary. Like me. 

Frosty The Lucky.

I don't know, Frosty: modern obstetric forceps have been in use since the 16th century, so some reproduction 18th century ones would be a totally viable project.

Good Morning Woody,

Your original question has an answer or two. Absolutely, Definite, Possible, Maybe. Eeethorr, Eyethorr, Oar.

There is no way to know the answer for your question, until you try to find your own answer by firing up the Forge. I have a single burner that I also have to turn down.

Neil

 

6 or a half dozen...  

That thought is why I re-read the OP a few times before replying. He says he wishes to make, "S hooks, trivets, fire irons, tent pegs and the like."

The real issue could be autocorrect . . . AGAIN. I've had to completely rewrite posts to purge autocorrect selections.

OOOOH half a dozen leg vises! I tip my pack rat scrounger hat to you Woody!

Frosty The Lucky.

Their so forlorn looking waiting to get crushed at the scrap yard, who could resist..  At the bottom of that pile is a rather dainty small leg vise, that looks like it was in the dirt for a long time. I cant remember what condition the screw is, but I need to dig it out and see if it could get cleaned up for inside fancy work...

So on forges:  Thoughts on getting the  2 burner forge , and accepting  it being less efficient to run for most small stuff?

Wouldn't recommend it. For the sizes of stock you're talking about, a 1-burner is much more appropriate. I would suggest making sure it's properly insulated and lined with hard refractory. If that turns out to be too small (which I doubt), then you can upgrade. If you start with a 2-burner, you're going to be using a LOT more gas than you need, both to heat up the forge and to keep it hot.

Glad you rescued them!

What 2 burner forge? The maker and model name can be posted without violating site rules so we can search it out and see what you're talking about.

I hate to sound pedantic but you're making the common mistake of saying "efficient" when you mean "effective." My shop forge has 4 ea. 3/4" T burners and can freeze a 40lb. propane tank in under 45 minutes in summer. But I rarely run more than 1 burner and a 20lb tank lasts as long as I wish to work in one session, say 6+ hours at full blast.

Efficiency means squeezing the most from your resources which in propane forge's means adjusting the fuel air to a neutral ratio for max heat / second without oxidizing the work.

Effective on the other hand means it does it's job well. In a forge's case heats the work fast in a large enough chamber for the  chosen work. That is a Forge parameter, not just the burner.

If you think of a forge of any kind as a machine with a number of components this gets easier.

If you think you'll be only using one burner put isolation valves on them so you can burn one or both. Cut some K-26 insulating fire brick to block half the chamber and you have the best of both worlds. No?

There are lots of neat tricks you can use to change the shape and size of a forge chamber to suit the task and you'll discover more as your skills increase.

This really is a LOT of fun and we're here to help you engage in the addiction.

Frosty The Lucky.

Well, we could type out a couple of pages, trying to exhaustively answer your question. But the short answer, for a whole lot of reasons, is look into buying a single burner Diamondback forge, for what your state your goals are

I have the cheapest devil forge. 1 burner.

Will get metal plenty hot, i can get it to feel the metal sticking in it as just when welding.

Bit to lazy to get is to proper welding heat, it is a gashog than (could use more isolation). The steel oxidizes very quick.

Use it more on yellow heat, perfect for mild steel.

I should upgrade to something better, but it is still working (and i'm cheap).

So yeah, it will work, probably one of the cheapest option to start with and after some time you know better what you want to make and the next forge can be better suited for that.

 

 

Gewoon, You can tune that burner easily and prevent oxidization, just loosen the lock nut and close the choke plate on the intake end of the burner. Do it a LITTLE at a time and test between each adjustment.

Also if you're using the forge with the ends open it's drawing outside air making an oxidizing atmosphere in the forge. Partially block the ends with firebrick and control the interior atmosphere some. You have to leave room for burnt gasses to escape of course but there is nothing good about leaving the ends wide open.

Frosty The Lucky.

I'm still ruminating on picking out a forge.  I had a moment and pulled out the smallest vice. The thread still turns and it looks like it's mostly hand forged.  Id like to clean it up with out leaving obvious power tool marks.  Maybe an Oxalic acid bath first ?

 

Just for S+Gs I took inventory. There's one 6 1/4 vise, three 5 1/4 vises, one 4 1/2 vise and the wee 3 3/4 vise.   I left one in Maine 20 years ago, but I'm pretty sure it got stolen with my anvil out of a buddys shed.... So that doesn't count.

Take it apart and use electrolysis or dilute phosphoric acid. Both reduce rust to iron by bonding the oxygen. Just don't do either on an assembled mechanism or it might weld together. Many years ago I de-rusted a hammerhead I'd found rusting away on an old shop floor. It was little more than a handful of rust flakes in a hammerhead shape. I used dilute Naval Jelly (phosphoric acid, wetting agents and a jelling something) and electrolysis with an old trickle charger. The only sign the hammer wasn't new were the spots where flakes of rust had fallen off.

Phosphoric acid does the same thing but is harder to buy and WAY more dangerous to handle. I strongly advise against it unless you know exactly what you're doing and have the PPE! The stuff is much more dangerous than H2SO4 or HCL, for example it will react explosively on contact with concrete.

If you try the above described technique use Naval Jelly and leave it in the bath longer.

 Frosty The Lucky.

Good Morning,

The largest consumer of Phosphoric Acid, is Coca-Cola.

Phosphoric Acid is a strong Vinegar. To neutralize, use soap and water. It is available at almost any Body Shop Supplier as 'Rust-Mort'. There are quite a few different names of product that is used for Rust Neutralizer. It turns the Rust Black. Do not wire brush before the treatment, it works better when there is something for the Phosphoric Acid to react to. I have been using it on Automobiles for 20-30 years. I use a tin can from the recycle and a smallish Paint Brush for a usable container and applicator. I wash the Brush and the Tin Can in warm water, after I have poured the remainder back into the original container. I have used the same Tin Can and Brush for quite a long time.

I have been told that Phosphoric Acid is used for Gun Bluing. I have not tried it for that, but it makes sense. Guns are washed with soap and water after bluing.

Neil

 

 

Vinegar contains acetic acid, not phosphoric though both are used to remove rust. How they do it is different though.

In the old days carbonated soda pop was called a phosphate, say strawberry phosphate. Phosphate soft drinks became "Soda" pop when sodium carbonate was used to generate the CO2 to Carbonate it. I freely admit I don't know how Coca Cola carbonates their pop. Some simply inject CO2 into the beverage under pressure where it goes into solution. Different strokes I guess eh?

 Frosty The Lucky.

Speak of the debble....

That's 7.

 

17 hours ago, bark-eater said:

Maybe an Oxalic acid bath first ?

STRONGLY recommend the homemade Evaporust alternative discussed in THIS THREAD. Highly effective, quite inexpensive, and extremely safe!

Frosty, done all that, but since than, i newer tried it. No need for what i do.

The blocking is mostly for saving propane. 

But all is not perfect and just browsing now at what next 

Okay, so what are you browsing for? There is nothing wrong with saving propane, especially if it raises the temperature in the forge chamber and evens it out. 

However, the main reason I suggested partially blocking the openings on the forge was NOT to save propane, it was to eliminate forming scale on the work.

What happens with large openings, especially in round or oval tunnel forges is the flame entering causes the same induction action as the jet in the burner does. The high velocity jet causes a low pressure zone around it. In the burner it is used to draw combustion air into the burner. Unfortunately in the forge chamber it tends to draw fresh air into the forge to oxidize the work you're heating.

By partially blocking the openings you are creating a higher pressure in the forge chamber and blocking easy access for fresh air to enter. 

Not only does it prevent raw oxygen in the forge it keeps the flame INSIDE the forge for a longer time where it transfers more energy to the forge liner to do work for you. Also the flame remaining longer in the chamber gives it more time to finish burning which recovers more heat from your fuel, consumes ALL the oxy minimizing scale. 

AND the last thing the thermal baffles blocking the openings do is THEY get HOT just like the rest of the forge liner and they radiate infrared back into the chamber to work for you.

There are no downsides once you get the system balanced.

Make sense?

 Frosty The Lucky.

13 hours ago, Frosty said:

Not only does it prevent raw oxygen in the forge it keeps the flame INSIDE the forge for a longer time where it transfers more energy to the forge liner to do work for you. Also the flame remaining longer in the chamber gives it more time to finish burning which recovers more heat from your fuel, consumes ALL the oxy minimizing scale. 

AND the last thing the thermal baffles blocking the openings do is THEY get HOT just like the rest of the forge liner and they radiate infrared back into the chamber to work for you.

In other words, it saves propane!

If you all you care about is propane usage. . . sure.

 Frosty The Lucky.

No idea what i want next  

bigger, not by a lot bit 20 or 25cm in opening, now it is just not 14cm. Height now is good, is 14cm.

length is good, but a double door seems nice (big opening if needed,and a smaller opening for the long things).

Will try a ribbon for a more even heat.

First more forging and seeing what i like and what i do.

 

Wide or high Gewoon? 25cm high would lose heat at a very high rate, a couple times as fast as that wide. 

Yes a ribbon burner will hear more evenly but the overall temperature of the forge will be lower. Which burner type you should use depends on the type of heat you need.  I built both types using T burners, one with 4 each single flame nozzle burners and it works great for heating a relatively small area to welding heat. The rest of the steel in the forge gets HOT too, high orange with a few minutes time.

The naturally aspirated ribbon burner forge I call NARB heats the 19" x 4.5" x 4.5" chamber to an even temperature for all but maybe 3/4" at each end. It uses two 3/4" T burners to drive the ribbon burner head. 

One thing to remember about a ribbon burner is it is only ONE shape possible for "multi outlet" burners. If you cook on a gas range, you might be interested to know the burner under your dinner is a naturally aspirated multiple outlet burner, just a different shape than NARB in my forge.

 Frosty The Lucky.