S-W Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Well, like my title says, I'm thinking of purchasing a new anvil. I'm also new to this forum. I've done a little research and just can't really narrow down what I want. Not really a blacksmith (I can honestly say what little hot forging I do would be on smaller stock, 1/2dia etc). Mostly looking for one for my shop, for general shop use. Lots of cold work like: straightening, bending, riveting (lots of rivets). Sometimes taking on some hardened steel items like bearings, shafts, dies, etc. I could on rare occasion need to do something heavy. Now i'm not really looking to abuse anything or have any unreasonable expectations, although a good flat ground face would be pretty important. Especially if it's something I can dress up a bit with a surface grinder once or twice in my lifetime. I passed on a nice 1942 200lb Fisher at an auction a couple years back and have regretted it. Anyway, I'm wavering a bit, I'd like something around the 150lb mark. Been looking at the Kanca 165s mostly, but also looking at Hoffman's 115lb and the Scott Edens 200lb even though it's a completely different piece, why not? The Kancas are on sale for $920, the Hoffman is about $1100 and the Scott is around $1500. The Hoffman would be sans freight if I did go that route, as he's 25 miles away. Freight on the other 2 runs around 250.... I just cant find any reviews of the Scott anywhere. I did read they're ductile iron hardened to 52 HRC. Seems they cater mostly to farriers and I'm curious how they hold up with any heavy use outside of shoes. The Hoffman is maybe a bit lighter than what I would like, but probably sufficient overall. Mostly interested in the thoughts on the Scott Anvil. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming. Glad to have you. First, could you please put your general location into your profile? It helps with our answers to your queries and anvil answers are often geography dependent. I'm assuming that you are in the USA. 100-200# is a good size for a one man shop. It sounds like you will only be using it occasionally. So, you probably don't need a Cadillac when a basic Ford or VW will do just fine for your uses. You might even do just fine with an improvised anvil such as a chunk of railroad track on end, a piece of forklift tine, or a large sledgehammer head. They might serve your purposes for a lot less investment. I can't help you with the brands you mention. I have a 200# Peter Wright that does everything I want and doubt that I'll ever replace. And a 100# Vulcan that I bought for $25 in 1978. That said, if I were in your position I'd be looking at live and online auctions within a few hundred mile radius (living in Wyoming long distance drives are common) and Craig's List and any other possibility before I'd go for a brand new anvil. Also, there is the TPAAAT (Thomas Powers Applied Anvil Acquisition Technique) which involves asking every living human you encounter if they know of an anvil you could buy. It's amazing how many elderly ladies have an anvil out in the back shed that belonged to a deceased relative and they are happy to pass it on (pay them a fair price). "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Welcome aboard, glad to have you. Like George said above, if you put your general location in the header you'll have a much better chance of meeting up with members living within visiting distance. Like one with an anvil for sale. Hmmmm? If you're going to beat bearing races, and cold work steel, etc. on it then you are indeed going to abuse it so look for something inexpensive with a steel face. Any time you cold work steel the anvil will take a beating much worse than its generally designed for. I've visited and worked in too many shops with anvils just to do little things on like you describe and they are invariably badly beaten up, chipped and way to often have torch cuts and welding spatter on them because general shop help thinks it's better than using a bench or torch table. I can't find anything about Scott anvils but from the pics they are obviously cast steel and unlikely to be hard enough to beat cold steel on without getting dinged up. I'm not saying they're a poor anvil just not suitable for beating high carbon steel on without taking damage every time. What you describe needing above is a flat face and some weight, maybe a horn. I'd take a look at making or having made a Brian Brazeal style steel plate anvil. It's simply a piece of steel plate 3" thick standing on edge with a convenient curve on one end for turning scrolls or Fullering. Below is a pic of his favorite way of mounting his plate anvil. I'm not sure if that is his favorite version but he used to leave the one he used at a demo and just make one at the next. The anvil is simply torched and ground on the end of a piece of heavy mild steel plate though he was not averse to using higher carbon so long as someone else did all the grinding. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-W Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 Thanks for being the first to reply George. I've been improvising anvils for 30 years Actually when I was 15 I acquired a piece of railroad track and still have it handy. I've probably used everything from pieces of plate to the table of a swing beam clicker. I've wanted a real anvil for years like just about every man I guess? After breaking a jaw in my favorite vise from misuse, (A Parker) I decided it's time to order one. I'd probably use it weekly, perhaps daily at times. I work in my own shop. Pretty much everything I own came from auction, and hit allot of them, but I have only seen one or 2 decent anvils at auction. most are worn out, cracked, chipped or have some pretty serious sway-and still bring top dollar. At least Ohio is prime auction country. Never really saw anything reasonable on FB or forums either unfortunately. 9 minutes ago, Frosty said: If you're going to beat bearing races, and cold work steel, etc. on it then you are indeed going to abuse it so look for something inexpensive with a steel face. Any time you cold work steel the anvil will take a beating much worse than its generally designed for. I've visited and worked in too many shops with anvils just to do little things on like you describe and they are invariably badly beaten up, chipped and way to often have torch cuts and welding spatter on them because general shop help thinks it's better than using a bench or torch table. You're right on that point, no doubt. The difference here is that I take better care of my tooling than anyone that's punching a clock in a shop somewhere else. I'm just a minor abuser, and have sense to know when to quit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jeff Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 If you going to beat it up with cold work why not go with something like a cast steel anvil from Vevor. There alot cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Just remember a "real" anvil is whatever you use to hit hot metal on. The London Pattern is only about 250 years old and before that most Smiths worked on a block anvil with a few bick like things mounted in the shop. Lots of 3d world smiths use some version of a block anvil. If you are in Ohio there should be a lot of anvils around, a lot more per square mile than the mountain west. An anvil with a chipped edge is still perfectly usable unless the chips are significantly reducing the face area and a mildly sway backed anvil is still usable. In fact, although I can't testify from personal experience, some folk prefer them to a face that is perfectly flat. Auctions can be weird. I have seen ASOs (Anvil Shaped Objects) go for a lot and I have seen pretty good ones go fairly inexpensively. I've found that the best deals on anvils and other odd things are often at fairly remote farm/ranch auctions where most of the folk are there for the farm equipment like tractors and manure spreaders. The Forged In Fire TV show hasn't helped because there is now a higher awareness of blacksmithing and folk who think they want to try it. And then there are flippers who will buy and resell. I still suggest the TPAAAT method, church, work, PTA, coffee shop, etc.. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Did I miss you saying you were a one man shop? It wouldn't be surprised I miss stuff. If you want to preserve the face of a good anvil from having to do cruel and abusive things on it a "saddle" is cheap, easy to make and disposable. I use one on mine when cutting with a chisel and punching holes. Especially when showing a beginner how to cut and punch. A saddle is a sacrificial piece of modest thickness steel plate a bit wider than the anvil face with tabs welded to the underside that straddle the anvil and keep it in place. Lift it off and drop it on the floor when done. (NOT underfoot!) I drilled a few holes of different sized on one end of mine to provide relief when I punch holes. Lots of people punch holes directly on the anvil face which works fine if you have some experience but the holes keep my work straight and if I misread when to flip it over I don't ruin my punch or the anvil face. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-W Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 (edited) 26 minutes ago, The Jeff said: If you going to beat it up with cold work why not go with something like a cast steel anvil from Vevor. There alot cheaper. Cheaper yes... I just cant stomach buying anything Chinese if I can get out of it. If I can avoid it I do. I'm guessing you probably would also? Looking at the Turkish Kanca anvils is enough of a compromise. Edited July 19 by S-W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeJustice Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Sorry to not be answering your question about the Scott anvils, but have you looked at Holland anvils? It seems that some have expressed favorable views of their products and service, especially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-W Posted July 19 Author Share Posted July 19 17 minutes ago, LeeJustice said: Sorry to not be answering your question about the Scott anvils, but have you looked at Holland anvils? It seems that some have expressed favorable views of their products and service, especially. I did look at a couple of them, not really sure what the turn off was? Might reconsider. They do have some weights in the Continental patterns I liked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Below is a discussion we had some time ago started by a fellow with the same question. Frosty The Lucky. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/66480-kanca-vs-holland-vs-hoffman/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-W Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 I think I'm going to order one of the Kancas in 165lbs. for a little over $900 it seems to be the better option. If anyone has a negative opinion on these Kancas please reply or send a pm. Won't be ordering until next week, there's a machinery auction coming up that I may or may not spend my cash reserves on first! LOL Frosty I actually think the anvil you pictured made from 3" thick stock looks pretty handy. I can think of about 100 uses for it already. I did a quick look on steel prices, a piece of 3"x12"x12" carbon stock is pretty steep....From a supply house it seems to be priced about the same as a similar weight new steel anvil. I guess a scrapyard would probably be a better source option for something along those lines though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 If I were in Ohio and looking for an anvil I would certainly attend the SOFA event in September before laying out the money for a new anvil. The tailgating there runs for days and is easily one of the best in the country. In fact I have heard that some dedicated folks actually get there a couple of days before the official event starts and blacksmith equipment gets sold and resold several times during the week. Also, yes a scrapyard is your friend for getting mild steel stock for a Brazeal style anvil. I got a chunk of around 125# to use for a striking anvil for around $75 at my local. Good luck, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 What do you mean when you say, "Carbon Stock"? Steel REQUIRES carbon to be steel, without designating how much, saying carbon steel is like saying wet water. Brian uses what he can find but IIRC never higher carbon than mid and avoids alloy steel. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-W Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 Yes you got me there on a technicality Frosty. Around here we just say Carbon steel or mild steel (or just plain steel) when it's not critical. After living here for 35 years I'm starting to assimilate. I just looked into the SOFA thing, never heard of it but I'm game to check it out. I'm not in a big rush. It's a 3hrs drive one way. I somewhat wonder about any deal potential though? Might be hard to find a like new, good quality anvil in the 160lb range with a perfectly flat face and undamaged edges in the $900 range. But then again, I don't need a justification to check out the show. I think scrapyards are more of a regional phenomenon. Around here where it's a little more third-worldish, they're mostly just piles of old farm machinery, washing machines and car bodies. If I went a couple hrs North West to Columbus, or North to Akron lets say, where there is more of an industrial base such as machine shops/fabrication shops I'd likely find better pieces of steel, cut stock, leftovers etc there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 21 minutes ago, S-W said: After living here for 35 years I'm starting to assimilate. Wondering where that might be. So many replies require knowing where you hang your hat. If you edit your profile and add a general location it will show up with every post. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 Most blacksmiths who are concerned about getting an anvil with a perfect, "surface ground" flat face and sharp edges find out that neither is really optimal for typical hot work blacksmithing. A little sway allows for straightening stock with light blows over a dip, and a 1/8" - 1/4" edge radius prevents adding stress risers and cold shuts to your work. Of course there are certainly applications where these qualities are of paramount importance, but there are typically work-arounds. If I felt that those crisp corners and perfectly flat faces were required I would only be looking at a new anvil (and probably a H-13 Hoffman). If I got one of those pristine anvils, I certainly wouldn't use it to cold forge hardened steel items (as you list in your OP) or bending much of anything cold except over the horn. Note that the sharper and harder an anvil edge is, the more prone it will be to chipping. The scrap yard I go to is actually a steel discounter/liquidator: Alro Metals Outlet. They have over 80 locations, including (6) in Ohio. recommend you check them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 31 Share Posted July 31 And the more prone to causing cold shuts in the work. Sharp edges especially are not good things on a working anvil. In fact until recently anvil makers gave directions about how and why to round the edges. They came from the maker unbroken to allow the smith to round the edges to their own specs. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-W Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 46 minutes ago, Latticino said: If I felt that those crisp corners and perfectly flat faces were required I would only be looking at a new anvil (and probably a H-13 Hoffman). If I got one of those pristine anvils, I certainly wouldn't use it to cold forge hardened steel items (as you list in your OP) or bending much of anything cold except over the horn. I thought real hard on Hoffmans, he's only a 30 min drive north of me. I dont "forge" anything of hardened steel. Some smaller hot work, rivets. I guess I'd on the flat surface gig as I would tend to use it as "flat" work table at times. I did see the Kancas are a ground a little convex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 12 hours ago, S-W said: It's a 3hrs drive one way. You are obviously not to far away from me. Yes it is well worth going to. You may not find the anvil you are looking for but you will find just about any kind of tooling you can think of. Not to burst your bubble but i highly doubt that you will find an anvil that size in that good of shape for that price. Now if you can deal with a few imperfections, like a couple chips off the sides, or rounded edges, or what not i would guess that you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Latticino Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 You don't think he can find a clean approximately 150 lb anvil for around $1,000? I have an extra 125# Peter Wright in good condition (clean edges - but not sharp- and flat top) that I'd be happy to sell for $550. If he were any closer I'd hook him up with that. I've only been to SOFA once, but I saw folks there with loads of anvils to sell. You probably mean he will have trouble finding an anvil that is essentially N.O.S. for that price. I agree that those typically get snapped up by collectors and prices can be unusual... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 Yes that is what i meant. You can definitely find a very good usable anvil for that price just not one in pristine condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-W Posted August 5 Author Share Posted August 5 On 8/1/2024 at 4:38 AM, BillyBones said: You are obviously not to far away from me. Depends on the taker I guess. I'm in far SE Noble County approx. 3hrs from Dayton. For years I did the Bill Goodman shows in Dayton/Cincinatti and considered them my "home" shows. I always had a place to stay over that way for free. My family came here from the Dayton Area when I was barely in elementary school. My father was an avid hunter in his youth (The SE had grouse and Deer) and always joked that he wanted to live in the "third world." This region being the closest he could find to home (I always just joked that my family were refugees!) I think I am going to attend that SOFA event, looks like tickets are $70? My 11yr old son has quite a bit of interest in it for the moment. If hadn't come on this forum I would have never heard of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-W Posted August 23 Author Share Posted August 23 Ok.... I got to look over a Kanca anvil a few days ago while visiting a machine shop that actually had one. I think I may pass. Overall looked like a good piece, but I found the horn too short and the body seemed to have more of a taper to it coming off the face. (not quite 90 degrees off the face). I do some hot work here, but smaller lighter work than a true blacksmith. After a little more thought and research, I believe i found what I'm really looking for. Although seems unavailable at the moment. Still liking the Scott Edens Anvil. Anyone have one of these Peruns? What's the opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 They don't say much about their anvil on the site, except how "good" it is. This one looks like a good shop weight at 100kg / 220lbs. The built in fuller instead of a step is different and an excellent way to keep people from using the step to cut with a hot chisel. Being over the feet would making drawing over it more effective than over the horn, rebound wise and it wouldn't automatically curve the piece. Unfortunately they don't provide little details like face RC. steel alloy, etc. Without knowing I THINK it's probably closed die forged, they say it's not cast "cheap" steel. Soooo, it might be cast Not-cheap, steel. I wish I could say something definite and I'd love to take one for a test drive but . . . <sigh> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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