Questions Before I Begin a Hatchet

[TheCowBear]

I have a friend who asked me to make them a hatchet similar to a viking handaxe. I have never made a hatchet or tomahawk so I've been browsing this forum and am curious where people source new steel. I don't really want to make the hatchet from the salvage material I have because I know it's really old leaf springs and I can't vouch for their long-term durability. I have found a few websites that sell S-7 tool steel and one that will sell 4140 steel, but both are round stock 1"-1.5". How painful is it going to be to make a hatchet out of that if I don't have a power hammer or a press? I also don't have any punches, but I do have the steel to make a drift for the eye. Is that going to be impossible or merely difficult?

 Thanks in advance, any other advice is greatly appreciated

 

TheCowBear

[Latticino]

If you know what you are doing you can make a smaller "viking style" hand axe out of the 1.5" round 4140 stock.  It is certainly possible to hot punch the eye solo with a good drift (see videos by Brent Bailey or our own JLP).  It is a lot easier with a helper swinging that big hammer.  It's a great team project with a striker, but it helps if you make the tooling first.  You need at minimum a hammer eye punch or slitter and an axe eye mandrel/drift.  You may find it helpful to have a flatter and a radiused top tool to match the curve of the belly you likely think you need (note there are a great number of different types of "viking" hand axe.  Some had rather simple lines, some superlative silver inlay.  You can go in either direction, but I don't recommend going for a bearded axe on your first try unless you are a fairly experienced blacksmith).  

[TheCowBear]

So do you use the slitter and then the drift? And would O-1 tool steel work or is that a no go? (I just found a site that sells it in bar stock, which means I can wrap and weld. Which is a whole host of other issues to figure out)

 

I have been doing this as a weekend warrior for just over two years and most of my experience is with blades and minor scrollwork. So not super experienced. I would love a flatter and I don't know what a top tool is, so thank you for giving me more things to look up and potentially buy.

 

I would love to get to the point where I can do decorative etchings and inlays, but I'm not even close yet. Lots of things to look forward to learning.

[Goods]

4140 can be tough to forge if you’re not used to working with it, but O1 will be harder. I also feel that O1 tool steel is not the best choice for a hatchet. If you’re not worried about trying to weld up a folded hatchet, I would start with a mild steel body with a coil spring bit forge welded in. I find bit welding to be one of the easier forge welds and forging to body from mild steel will be much less work.

Nils Ögren YouTube channel is an excellent resource for hatchet/axe making and it’s worth checking out. If I remember correctly most of his videos are folded hatchets, but I think there are some slit and drift videos as well.

Lots of ways to make what you’re looking for, but you need to find a process that with work with what equipment and skills you have (or can develop).

Keep it fun,

David

[Frosty]

Stay away from alloys containing more than a couple points of chrome. (A point being 1/100 of 1 percent) Simple carbon alloys weld easily IF you follow the basic forge welding rules. 1040 makes a good axe body, it is tough and can take a beating without bending. I like 1070 - 1080 for axe bits it can be hardened nicely but not so much it's unreasonably brittle.

You might have to buy online though and the only one I can think of right now is "Metal Supermarket" it sells " standard" shorter lengths, or any length for a reasonable cut charge if you want one they don't keep on the shelf. 

Trying this with found stock is NOT a beginner project, there is more to blacksmithing than getting it hot and hitting it with a hammer.  I'm not trying to discourage you and we'll help talk you through it but you're setting yourself up for failure using the alloys you've mentioned without the knowledge and experience necessary.

Frosty The Lucky.

[TheCowBear]

Thanks guys. I’m learning all sorts of things. 
 

Part of the reason I was asking about the round stock is I’m not sure my new forge I’m working on will get up to forge welding temps given my current burners. 
 

I know a couple of places where I can get 1040 and 1070 steel but your comment brings up two more questions for me Frosty. What are the basic rules of forge welding? I know you want it at yellow heat, use flux, and to set the welds gently. What else am I missing?

 

Second question; can you tell the chrome content of steel the way you can the carbon content? I know that most carbon steel tells you the carbon content in its name. If there are four digits anyway. 

[Goods]

I generally use a google search with the material designation and “steel specifications”. This type of search typically give results showing chemical composition and physical properties. 

Also, if you can start with bar stock close to the pole cross section, that will save you a lot of forging just to get to your starting size. Of course you may want to start with larger stock and forge the height down for the eye and pole to leave more material in the bit area for the beard. (If you’re going for a bearded Viking hatchet and all assumes a slit/punch and drift approach)

I’m not a forge welding expert, but forge welding is not magical. Your steel needs to be clean, hot, and forced together. Bring your weld faces up to a red heat, wire brush it good to clean them, then flux. Then bring your weld areas up to a lemon yellow color (lower temp for higher carbon or higher alloy content) and weld with solid blows. Not particularly hard, but you don’t really want to move the material a lot (may cause the material to slide along the welding plane as one side moves more then the other) and you don’t want the material or hammer to bounce around (may also cause the material to slip along the welding plain). Hopefully, with a few hits the material is tacked together. Brush lightly, reflux and repeat. On this pass you can be more aggressive, but wait for the 3rd pass before you really start moving metal. Also as your drawing out the part around the weld area, keep it at a welding heat until you confident that all went well.

You may try this with a piece of 1/2” square with the end split and scarfed and a wedge made of the material you plan to use as a bit (putting “teeth” on the sharp edge of the wedge will help holding it in place for the weld). Consider it a simplified bit weld that will give you good experience before trying it with a 70% completed hatchet. (If it works, you can turn these test pieces into chisels…)

I hope this is some what helpful. (I didn’t cover everything, but others, if I missed something or messed something up, please share…)

Keep it fun,

David

[Frosty]

Have you been following the current discussion on "Burners 101"? One of the members bought a $38 T burner that he says welds for him and he's new to the craft. When I looked at the site they were $74 and change but I have Amazon Prime so shipping is covered.

My rules of forge welding are Clean Clean CLEAN. I match the joint surfaces so there are no high spots or gaps. Then I shine them up, preferably on my belt grinder with a fine belt or at least a single cut file till there is nothing but shiny steel. Cleaning can be involved but if your joint is clean enough you can clamp it together for a few days and it will weld.

Next step I wipe the joint surfaces lightly with 3in1 oil and DUST lightly with flux. I use Peterson's Blue commercial welding and brazing flux found at welding stores in the gas welding section. My can cost $26 in Alaska dollars but that was years before Covid let alone the current inflation.

Anyway, the light oil coat holds the flux in place, I clamp the sides together while I gently close it with light hammer blows on the poll.

Lastly I bring it to welding temperature, shined and fluxed well, medium orange will set the weld. I suggest you take it to medium yellow till you get a handle on the process. I set the weld with slow dead blows with a heavy hammer. The weight of the hammer does the work of pushing the sides of the joint to welding distance. By dead blow I mean to not let the hammer bounce. don't let it sit on the weld and draw the heat but do NOT swing it fast so it bounces like you were forging something. Letting the hammer bounce can cause the joint surfaces to move sideways and shear the weld or bounce apart. 

I strike the first blow on or next to anyplace that might trap flux, scale, dirt, etc. This shouldn't be an issue on an axe head but start at the poll anyway. Work the blows out in an overlapping pattern.

When you get to the bit, flux and take another heat, then before setting the bit weld I like to give the bit steel a light tap into the folded and welded body to make sure there are no gaps. Then I set the bit with a blow centered on the bit. 

Once the welds are set flux, bring back to welding temp and refine the weld by striking the joint with harder blows until you've covered the joint 100%.

While you're refining the weld the axe head will get wider and longer so start towards the center before striking the edges. And if you make the pattern closer as you move towards the cutting edge it will widen more than the rest and curve the edge for you. 

If you want a bearded axe/hatchet GENTLY forge it on edge over the horn. This does NOT take hard blows but wants solid ones. lay the beard section on the horn and strike the top of the edge. Envision holding the axe head up by the handle, the top is up the beard curves down towards the cutting edge.

With practice you can forge an axe head to finish shape on the anvil and require only a little bit of clean up with file or grinder. Profiling and sharpening the edge is likely to take a little time of course.

I'd be able to describe this better if I made an axe or hatchet now and then but that's pretty close to how I make one. The big difference in my method from most folks is in making lap welds as described above.

Most folk use a traditional method of closing the joint, heating to orange and fluxing, then bringing to welding heat and setting the weld.

I on the other hand bring the joint almost closed and flux sometimes using a light oil to stick the flux to the surfaces. I prefer not to heat the joint prior to fluxing because the higher the temperature the faster it oxidizes which can prevent a successful weld. Interestingly enough Borax welding flux lowers iron oxide's melting so it will flow out of the joint more easily when struck with the hammer. Soooo, I apply the flux before heating so it forms a prophylactic barrier to contact with oxygen on the joint surfaces. Oxide will form because borax, even combined with boric acid melts at a high enough temperature that oxides WILL form before it's protected. On the upside the iron oxide that forms is already mixed with borax so dissolves upon formation. Rather than having to flow between joint surfaces in hard physical contact. 

it's as close to fool proof as I know of.

Frosty The Lucky.

[TheCowBear]

I've been slowly working my way through the Burners 101 and Forges 101 posts, but they're really long so it's going reeeally slowly.

 

 I lied, I can't seem to find 1040 steel anywhere on the internet that sells it in small quantities. I found a few places that sell it in the thousands of pounds though. I don't think I could ever use that much 1040.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

There are a lot of suppliers listed here, might try some of them.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s.
Semper Paratus

 

 

[Goods]

Might give McMaster-Carr a try. They sell 1045 in small quantities, but not the cheapest route.

Keep it fun,

David

[TheCowBear]

McMaster-Carr has the best prices I've found for flat stock 1045 or 1040. They also sell 4140 and 1085 in flat stock. Does 4140 weld well? Would 1085 work well for a bit or does it get too brittle with heat treating? If 1085 does work I'd like to purchase from one supplier to save on shipping costs.

[Goods]

4140 will work weld as a slit and drift hatchet/axe. I personally have had issues forge welding it (that may just be me, others have said they have no problems) so I wouldn’t use it for a wrapped eye hatchet/axe. 4140 with also hold up well enough without an additional HC bit.

1085 may be a bit high on carbon for a bit, but I’ve used 1095 with good results. You just need to be careful about drawing the hardness back some.

Keep it fun,

David

[swedefiddle]

Most machinery shafting is 1045. Talk to your local Machine Shop, they will have it. I don't weld a bit in, with 1045, I punch for the handle. EZE-PEEZEY.

I have also used Dywidag (dewydag), it is a steel for rock anchor during Bridge Construction. It is stretched with hydraulics (thousands of pounds of tensile stretch) and a nut (often left hand thread) tightened by hand, then the hydraulics is released. Spring tension holds the Bridge footings for a lifetime. Great for Axes, got some spring. I have a friend who operates a concrete pumper truck and he snags some drops. I punch the eye and make the Axe any shape I want. Small beard, big beard, no beard, whatever is wanted.

If you can't find 1040, change your focus. Most Jack Hammer bits are 1040 to 1060.

Neil

[Rojo Pedro]

I would make a couple out of old ball peen hammers first.

1. Good known steel

2. Pre punched hole, you will need a drift to straighten it out.

3. They are great practice (hard steel) and they can turn out real nice. 

[Latticino]

Rojo,

That is exactly what I was planning on recommending (and indeed was my first hawk forging and actually third thing I ever forged).  Just remember to use an older ball peen hammer.  Some of the newer, cheap, ones are not made from easily hardenable steel.  I would spark test the face first to be sure.  Around here they are readily available at garage sales and flea markets.  Without a handle you shouldn't need to pay more than a few bucks.  They also make great blanks for forging various top tools (punches, hot cuts...)