Power hammer, hammer eye punch die?

[mnidoone]

This is still a WIP.

Some notes about this

1) still not welded together

2) still needs more grinding on the base of the punch as its currently not sitting straight

3) the handle and sacrifice plate are still in need of alot of grinding to clean up. Also might add another length to the handle via welding. I misjudged how much metal I would have.

4) S7 is the punch metal, and mild steel is the sacrifice plate and handle. 

5) I will preheat the S7 Punch before welding to the mild steel

6) tip of punch is .61 inch

 Base of punch is 1.21 inch

7) this is as close to perfectly round as my naked eye can get it from the tip to half to the base

 

Total length is approximately 1.75 inchs.

 

Looking for suggestions on what else i should do to improve this. 

[Frosty]

I've never seen a "punch" shaped like that, it's a pretty obtuse taper and almost pyramidal. What are you planning on punching? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[mnidoone]

Trying to use it for hammer eyes right now, but now I wonder if i made it too big. 

[Goods]

I would make the punch completely cone shaped down to the weld. That way you don’t end up going to far with the hammer and end up with an odd shaped hole.

Keep it fun,

David

 

[Ridgeway Forge Studio]

I would try to make that pyramid into a triangle- lose the cubic dimension, so that it is rectangular in a top-down view, a triangle from the side. Usually you punch then drift- it looks like your idea is more punch drift combo

[mnidoone]

3 hours ago, Ridgeway Forge Studio said:

I would try to make that pyramid into a triangle- lose the cubic dimension, so that it is rectangular in a top-down view, a triangle from the side. Usually you punch then drift- it looks like your idea is more punch drift combo

 Kind of the idea I was going for. End stage is this is punched and drifted, then squish the sides a bit of the hammer to make the eye a bit more oblong (oval) and fine tune the side walls and balance of the hammer with a hand driven drift. 

21 hours ago, mnidoone said:

 

[Ridgeway Forge Studio]

For what it’s worth, it feels unnecessarily ambitious to try and do both steps at the same time.

whats wrong with making a slot punch, then several powerhammer drifts? 

[mnidoone]

I mean to be perfectly honest, I'm in the dumb stage of blacksmithing. I'm trying to reinvent the wheel to see if something new might work. 

I'm also enjoying the creativity of it. I enjoy failing if I learn something new. I still have enough S7 right now to try and recreate this 2 more times in different variations. 

But this design inevitably is a variation of a hammer eye punch design I saw from Torborn Ahman on youtube. His was more narrow and more akin to a center punch. Perfectly cylindrical in its taper. But as i started working in the octagon I wondered if this might work as it is. Best worse case I cut the welds, and work it down thinner. 

Worse worse case I'm out a chunk of S7 and learned a new valuable lesson. 

[Frosty]

Nobody's born knowing this stuff or anything, we all began at zero, welcome to the club. I take exception to your "dumb stage" comment though, not knowing something isn't dumb, it's ignorant. Ignorance can be fixed easy as learning but dumb is forever.  To paraphrase R. A. Heinlein, "Ignorance can be cured, stupidity is it's own death sentence." Something like that. 

Most of us took up the craft because we like making things with our own hands and creativity is a MUST to be any good at it. I get a little ego boost from being able to shape steel like modeling clay and have always been comforted by knowing I could make most of what I need with a fire something hard and heavy to beat against, something to beat with and whatever steel I find. 

As a young kid I saw Paladin on "Have Gun Will Travel" stranded by bandits on the prairie with nothing. He came too and started searching, he finds the remains of a wagon train and sets about making survival gear, fire, makes pancakes from flour and water, moccasins from canvas and forges himself a knife and dart points from scrounged iron from a wagon. He makes an atlatl a few steel tipped darts and goes hunting for his horses and gear.

I've never liked the idea of being helpless. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

When you're in the learning stage, it's worthwhile to try out what others have done before reinventing the wheel. Torbjörn and Brent Bailey both use round punches and then drift to shape for a reason: it's much easier to align the drift in an already-punched hole than it is to get the alignment perfect the first time (especially under the power hammer). Also, it's easier to release a round with a quick tap-and-twist if it gets stuck.

[MeltedSocks]

Is this what you saw on TA's channel?

[Latticino]

Key problem I see with your design is the shear plane.  I have certainly punched square and rectangular holes in the past, but for ease of successful shearing you need a relatively flat, "sharp" plane to cut the plug free.  The irregular tip on yours will just get frustrating, particularly in the middle of a large hammer billet. You can have a tip, it just has to emanate from a flat, regular crossection with an abrupt change (to either a flat or a short beveled tip).  Yours also has a lot of taper in the longitudinal direction which will make it more difficult to shear effectively.

There are a number of timing and process details that help a lot with hot punching.  You can learn a bunch more about punching by starting with 1/4" thickness and working your way up to hammer sized billets.  Here are some to consider:

1. Punch one side until you feel the tool "bottom out" on the anvil.  Then flip it over, flat quickly, counter punch and shear the plug.  Shearing works best, in my experience, when done on steel that is dull red at most.
2. While punching take your tool out at least every 3 hits and cool down to avoid having it overheat.
3. Rotate either your stock 180 every 3 hits or yourself around the anvil.  This will help keep you straight.
4. Hit hard with as heavy a hammer that you can handle (and that the tool can take)
5. Treadle hammers, hydraulic presses, or strikers are great for this activity
6. Put a deep center punch on one side of your billet as a guide (some drill up to three holes through the billet, but after time you will find you don't need to).  Tap your first try and make sure the tool is correctly placed, then hit harder once you are sure it is in the right spot.
7. Don't just put the tool on the stock and start bashing away, it will bounce and come down away from the target.  Resett he tool every hit until you get a good size divot started as a guide.

John's point about the ease of punching a round hole and turning it oval is also well noted.  A round punch can certainly do the job. 

[MeltedSocks]

My next two tool builds.  I guess the exact dimensions and shape aren't critical as long as I leave room for the hammer eye drift to make the final shape.  I'm just going to estimate and eyeball. I'm thinking that the length of the punch should be at least half of the thickness of the material you're trying to punch, maybe two-thirds? Am I off base?

These are from Torbjorn's channel where he's making a ball peen hammer.