jlpservicesinc Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 George I'll try to explain but it's rather complicated.. It's all based on where the fire is in its cycle. Starting, green coal smolder/lighting, coked, and ready. The dial on the back of the hood is for the venturi assist.. This is used in conjunction with the slider just after the blower and before the tuyere to increase the venturi effect and also lessen the amount of air going to the fire. Between these 2 you adjust them till you get the smoke going up the hood.. but also recirculated the heavy smoke thru the tuyere again. Starting the forge, you close the shutters, close the vent before the blower, partially open the venturi for the stack (barely a crack).. this pushes any smoke that goes up into the stack but the smoke is still to heavy.. It will help to get it out the stack. When the coke and coal, first starts there is a lot of heavy smoke and this is sucked into the blower thru the bottom upside down V section towards the left of the hood opening, This smoke is then fed back into the tuyere/firepot and up the venturi pipe. As the fire starts and the flames get higher and get hotter and the smoke starts to catch you open the vent just before the blower thus no longer sucking in hot flames and now you can adjust the shutters in the hood, Venturi and the slider valve right before the tuyere for the best burn and smoke removal. The slider valve just before the tuyere controls the venturi volume.. The little valve inside the pipe adjusts the amount of opening. This forge runs hot.. I forgot how much I love the Buffalo 200 blowers.. The firepot in this thing is huge compared to the standard Vulcan Buffalo firepot. This system really needs side shutters when used in less than still air. yes it pulls in the heavy smoke.. Ill have to see how it works over time.. I really bought it more for the potential to learn from it. I paid 975.00 for it and it's whole and has been refitted.. I'll have to ago thru and put new gaskets in because some of the cast pieces have little gaps. If this all makes sense or complete non sense let me know and I can make a video on it. I have included the 3 control points. this is missing the shutters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 By the way.. After seeing one in person.. It would be easy to make.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
giantdude33 Posted October 11, 2023 Author Share Posted October 11, 2023 Attached are some additional pictures and a drawing of the dimensions of the shutters.. let me know if you need anything else.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 OK, I think I understand the general principle, it eleiminates and burns the heavy smoke which occurs when starting a simple coal forge and when the air in the chimney is too cold to draw. However, I don't think I could pass and exam or build one but I think I understand the basics. Thank you. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Yes, the down draft hood is for burning the heavy smoke and for assisting with the cold chimney drawing problem. Catalog 801 1903 Buffalo forge and blower. So in my research on the subject, It's been made clearer and clearer that the down draft hood assembly was indeed a separate item and could be added to both the cast iron forge bodies of the 48 series of forges as well as other models of both cast iron and pressed steel. So the forge body is a 48 Series.. This model is a 248 with downdraft hood which is a 6660 model. The 2XX represents the model of blower.. 2XX is the 200 Silent blower, The 5XX is the 500 series blower and the 7XX is the 700 series blower and 8XX is the electric model.. So a 248 is this forge body with a 200 series blower with the 48 firepot and heavy cast body.. H is half hood, E is down draft.. These forges came in a 48 and 49 series Heavy body.. The 48 is only 3" deep and the 49 series is 6" deep. So, this forges is a 248E with 6660 down draft hood. The forges weighs 345lbs and the hood assembly weighs 250lbs. By the way.. At some point.. They made 660 forges that were either/or with sidedraft.. so I own a 660 forge that is not side draft.. 660 was the forge model. I think they fitted the 660 side draft to these 660 forge bodies and just to simplify their internal system.. I can't confirm this as it's very hard to establish lines simply by catalogs. Within a very short time Buffalo forge was moving away from cast iron in their forge products stating that steel was superior in every way.. The Silent 200 blower was their main stay premium blower but even this was moved to pressed steel stampings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 That's an excellent description, Jennifer, and well-researched. George, just one other point: Buffalo also made another kind of down-draft forge that did not include the re-burning setup at the core of what Jennifer describes above. This was a stationary forge for industrial shops and had a moveable hood that pulled the smoke and fumes off the top of the fire, down through the base of the forge, and out of the building through a flue system installed under the floor. This kept the space above the forge(s) clear, allowing large workpieces to be moved through the shop without bumping into vertical flues or chimney stacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 JHCC where did you pull that 660 photo from? Do you remember the date of the catalog? from the beginning of this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Found it online somewhere; honestly don't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Thanks was hoping to establish a date for the information. From what I can gather.. The 660 hood has the blower connected directly to the larger ash collector. The 6660 connects to the back of the hood. I can't seem to find the date of change from the 660 to the 6660 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Addendum: that image appears in the Buffalo Forge "Catalogue No. L G 5", which you can see here: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/129/5083.pdf. There's no date on the catalog itself, but the guarantee certificate on the first page has "190...." for someone to write in the date of purchase; I deduce therefore that this was between 1900 and 1909 inclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Also from the 660 to the 6660 the swing down divider disappears. Also the shutter grates are slightly different. Thanks.. On that flyer there was a patent date of 1894 for the commercial down draft forge.. This is one of the oldest production forges that maintained the same design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Here's an image from a 1908 catalog showing three versions of the stationary down-draft forge: Source: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/129/24438.pdf; the 660 and 666 are still included at this point. This 1920 version (from the " Catalogue of American Exports") shows three somewhat different models of stationary down-draft forges: Source: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/129/20239.pdf; the 660 and 666 does not appear. In the 1929 catalog, Buffalo revised their product line to denote different sizes and weights of cast iron hearth, to which a down-draft hood could be fitted: Source: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/129/4907.pdf; the stationary forges shown in this catalog are not listed as down-draft, and Buffalo is now offering a telescoping overhead hood for them. The 1949 catalog still shows the down-draft hood as an option for the various portable forges: Source: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/129/24561.pdf; stationary forges are not listed. The 1955 catalog has the same page as the 1949; http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/129/27837.pdf. The 1956 price list only shows a couple of portable forges with down-draft hoods: Source: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/129/24562.pdf; prices are given for stationary forges. The 1975 brochure says that it's for portable and stationary forges, but only shows a couple of blowers and tuyeres. Source: http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/129/27856.pdf. The Vintage Machinery website doesn't show any additional forge brochures after 1975, although it does have a lot of stuff about drills, punches, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 You found it in the 2nd to last photo. That is the model with the 6660 hood.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 So after my test fire I noticed there was not as much suction as there should be.. When I lifted the forge up to move it I noticed there was a few things going on. Now I am perplexed because there seems to be a part missing on this forge that somehow changes the flow of air. It's a shield that goes in front of the blower intake at the back of the hood at the bottom. I can see where something was mounted but is not missing. Be great to see an original before I just guess at it. I also tore it all apart and found some missing bolts holding up the ash dump for the hood as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW84 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I’ve got this same forge, I’ve just taken it all apart and cleaned everything up. I know this is an older thread but I see people are still commenting lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 No worries on age of this thread.. What hood series do you have a 660 or a 6660? I'm still looking for some photos of the upper shutters and the air diverter that is supposed to sit just under the upsidedown V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW84 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I realize there may be some that frown on me painting it, but I like my things ti look somewhat nice. And I had to cover up the orange paint that was on part of it. The guy I got it from said he got it from a vocational school. I’ve had it awhile but it’s just been setting. I’ve got all new bolts to put it back and should start assembling it soon. Luckily I work in a large factory that has its own gasket shop and I can get new gaskets there. It’s the 6660 I’m out right now but as soon as I get back I’ll take a picture of the piece you are asking about. It’s basically a flat piece that stands out about an 1 from the hole. Could have someone break you one from a piece of 1/4 steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Nah, the paint looks great.. Paint is excellent for keeping rust at bay.. In the old days, the paint was great stuff and they slathered it on.. Often times it looked like creosote dip.. There would be puddles of dried paint and large runs. I was told by a guy who painted tractors and heavy equipment that runs don't rust.. Your photos did not come thru originally.. I can see them now.. Nice looking forge. If you are making gaskets commercially I'd buy a set.. A lot of the seams need to be plugged with calking. do you have some idea of what you will use? When you put it back together be sure and install all the bolts and pieces together loosly.. Then start tightening the bolts in a "round loosy" kinda deal. Some photos of those pieces would be fantastic.. When you have time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW84 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I wish I’d used flat black instead of the gloss but when I originally started working on this over a year ago I didn’t pay attention that it was gloss I had got. POR-15, a little pricey but good stuff. The gasket material will probably be grafoil material which is a graphite based material that we use quite a bit. I can buy the material or they will probably have scraps they will let me have. They have a machine that cuts them out, I’ll just have to bring them a pattern. Hope these pictures help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Wow, thank you very much.. That is great.. Now I can make up the parts I need.. On my unit there are bolt holes on the bottom as well.. Does your back wall have the extra bolt holes? The gloss black will turn matt over time.. Looking really sharp though.. I like the gloss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW84 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 These? Is there any way to date this thing that you know of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW84 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Yep, they are there but as far as I know there wasn’t anything in them. There is a bolt that goes through where my finger is, well a counter sunk screw that comes through the back plate and had a nut on the inside under the air diverter plate. Those two holes at the bottom I’m pretty sure didn’t have anything in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 It makes me wonder what those extra holes were for? Your forge looks like it lived a good life.. These forges often times end up living outside or in a barn with the roof falling in. Here is the post of the forge I have. Posting all the photos here might have been more useful.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDW84 Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 I don’t know what those two extra holes would have been for. I’ve gotten the gasket material, it’s a layered graphite / stainless steel material good for high temperatures. We use it to replace old asbestos gaskets all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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