I have just started forging steel.  I decided to try making rail spike knives to begin with and have had reasonable success.  I decided to try to make a blade out of a 1/2" Allen wrench.  It was going well enough then it just broke in the forge.  Any advice?    I am using a propane forge.  

Edited July 30, 20223 yr by Mod30
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Too hot?  Did it "cottage cheese"  on you or burn?  Stop by tomorrow after lunch and we can go over what you are doing and what can be improved.

Your set up looks quite inefficient to me with that long a forge---about twice as long as a good swordmaker's forge! (Unless you have a power hammer, heating more steel than you can work before it cools results in carbon loss, scale loss and grain growth.) The anvil stand has crisscrossed cribbing instead of vertical supports. (Each interface looses some energy so vertical supports has 2: anvil to stand, stand to ground; that one has 10!)  Spending a bit of time at other smiths' forges can really speed up getting started right.  Here in the USA we advise folks to visit a local ABANA affiliate, (NMABA has their next meeting Aug 6 in Albuquerque NM)

The allen wrench might be a high carbon steel. HC steel forges differently than low carbon steel does; why railroad spikes are not good practice for forging knives, even the HC spikes are right at the low/mid carbon steel boundary.

Yep, turn off two of those burners and if you have a cupple of soft insulating fire bricks reduce the size of that beast. 
higher the carbon content the lower the max forging temp. Bright orange for 100 point steels, lemon yellow for 60 point and bright yellow for mild steels. White hot for wrought.

Usually it’s coal forges that eat steel but charcoal and gas will  as well.

I have only been using the forward burner since the work is so small.   The allen wrench just came apart when I was removing it from the forge. Right at the base of the blade.  The forge has fire bricks as the base.  The anvil was a gift and is at least 150 years old.  It is 80lbs.  I have considered getting a brand new anvil.  

Based on what I see here I probably have it too hot. The heat worked good for the spikes but was probably more than the high carbon steel needed. 

Here are some of my spikes. 

 

 

That old farriers anvil is plenty for 90% of smiths. Don’t deride her, she is a thing of beauty. 

Good Morning Dash,

The weight of the Anvil does not make your work presentation change, YOU are the deciding factor for what your work looks like. Enjoy what you have!! A bird in the hand is better than any in the bush.

Neil

I do really like my anvil and it has sentimental value. 

Howdy from eastern Oklahoma and welcome to the forum!

can we see some close ups of your anvil? It looks to be in excellent condition from a distance!

It is in nice shape.  I belive it was on a farm so wasn't used too often. 

That’s a good looking Trenton! Thanks for sharing! 

does it still have any serial numbers on the foot under the horn?

Yes. They are quite readable. 

It's just been yard art for the last 50+ years.  I got the tongs at a local museum auction so they are probably late 1800s/early 1900s

Is that a 103976? It’s kinda hard to make out that first digit

It's a 703976

That’s odd, Trenton serial numbers don’t go that high, the last ones made start with a 2

Well if it is a 103976 it’s dated as bein made in 1911

Ok it might be a rough looking 1. I just used a wire brush on it at the slash that made it look like a 7 isnt as deep as the rest. 1911 sounds like it could be right.  It was my step father's grandfather's  he is 91 now. 

I found a local Smith from the ABANA who offers a 4 hour beginner's class for $210.  I think it might do me some good to take it.  

It’s always good to take a class and make a new contact! 

sometimes you can learn a lot faster with in person tutorials!

I have watched alot of videos but they have been more demonstration than instruction.  A good high carbon knife making class is in September but I can take a basic class now much closer to home. 

Welcome from the Ozark mountains. Trenton anvils are top notch and your Farriers pattern is in what looks to be in top shape. All it needs is hot steel hammered on it to keep it happy and shining. Hope you have read about not doing any milling, grinding or welding on the hardened steel face.

Thanks, I have read that trying to 'fix' it is more likely to ruin it.  I have no plans to mess with it.  It seems to have a great bounce but I am not really qualified to judge it.  The edges of the face arnt as crisp as I would like but I have a nice 600# plate steel welding table if I need a good square edge.  

A quote from Practical Blacksmithing; a 130 year old collection of articles from a blacksmithing journal:

"Practical Blacksmithing";Volume 1, published in 1889; page 110: "For my own part I am satisfied not only that the sharp edges are useless, but that they are also destructive of good work. I cannot account for their existence except as a relic of a time  when the principles of forging were but little understood. I want both edges of my anvil rounded, not simply for a part of their length, but for their whole length."

If you need a sharp edge; make a block for the hardy hole that has 1 (or 4 for that matter)!   This is how anvils get damaged by being "repaired", new people think the edges should be sharp not realizing that sharp edges will leave stress risers in the workpiece---especially bad for blades!

That makes sense, guess it is as it should be.  Thanks for the insight.  

I went ahead and signed up for 32 hours of classes with Tillers International about two hours away from me.  2 days of basics and 2 days focused on high carbon knife making.  Not till mid September but I am looking forward to it.  I will keep playing with spikes till then.  

You won't regret it, you'll learn more in a couple days than months figuring it out yourself.

Frosty The Lucky.

I've made a lot of RR spike knives and sold a bunch when we had our business. The thing about them when giving or selling one is to inform who ever is getting it, about it's not the best steel for knives. Most of the knives I made were leaf style throwing knives. They were good for that, holding an edge for cutting not so much.

Yea. I view them as novelties for the most part.  I have some old tie plates also. They are cast so can't do much with them.  Thought I might make them a sort of display plaque for some of the fancier looking blades.