should i use water instead?

 

 

You've made a couple easy to correct mistakes Chris. The first and most important was using motor oil as a quenchant, new or used, the smoke is toxic and it's also a poor quenchant for being so slow to chill the steel. Next time use vegetable cooking oil, Mazola is Canola oil which has a high flash point and good quench speed. That cup is NOT enough oil, use a larger metal container and have a metal lid ready in case it catches fire. NEVER put water on burning oil! Cover the container with a lid and smother it. 

Your fire needs to be much deeper with WAY less air. You've made a "bottom blast" forge with the full output of the blow drier. A blow drier makes too much air for a charcoal fire many times larger. I used to use an old blow drier to make a burn barrel burn FAST. 

Next forge use the full length can and install the air supply pipe from the side an inch or so above the bottom of the can. Pack a little damp soil on the bottom of the can so the fire doesn't just burn through it. A couple small pieces of brick or more packed soil directly across from the air blast to preserve the can is a good idea. 

Instead of taping the blow drier to the air pipe just aim it at it from a little distance, say 3"-4". Don't aim it directly at the pipe you only need a small fraction of the output to make your fire more than hot enough. If you need more air aim the blow drier more directly at the pipe, less aim it away. Make sense?

4" of charcoal UNDER your blade is a good depth, 2" over it will shield it from air. Lay the blade in the fire edge up so it doesn't burn off as easily.

Does that make sense? Questions about THIS bit of advice?

Frosty The Lucky.

this knife is really small so i may ask my neighbor to borrow one of his propane torches and use 2 torches to heat treat

and ill switch out my motor oil for canola oil

 

I don't think a Bernzomatic type torch will bring stock to critical temperature. What's wrong with building a better charcoal forge? Just don't call it a forge around your parents. I won't tell them. Of course if you burn the house or neighborhood down I'll have to come down there and give you a harsh talking to.

Heck, forget the air supply pipe and just aim the blow drier at a hole in the side of the can and vary how straight in to control the heat.

Frosty The Lucky.

For a very small blade; a cheap plumber's propane torch will heat to critical in a "1 soft firebrick forge".

I strongly suggest you ask your parents to take you to attend one of the local ABANA affiliate meetings to learn that smithing is not as dangerous as playing video games!  You could probably arrange to heat treat your blade there too if you ask.

On 3/17/2022 at 5:23 PM, chrisyancy said:

the reason i cant really heat treat is bc imnot supposed to have a forge

 Your allowed to have a campfire but not a forge? 

lol I’m just messing with you 

I agree with the suggestions of asking your parents if you can attend a local blacksmith club meeting, you will get a chance to learn a lot more in person! 

like Thomas said a campfire with a hair dryer is a forge, and you can do a lot with it! 

I’ve drifted a 2” solid steel ball just using firewood, and Frosty has a picture on here somewhere of him using a campfire and a little blower repairing some log tongs using a log for an anvil! 

like Glenn said don’t think about what you can’t do! Think about what you can do! 

by the way, howdy from eastern Oklahoma and welcome to the forum! We’re always glad to have new people!

i found a guy who said he would do it    his name is john sims he was on forged in fire and seems like a really nice guy  

and i would love to go to a blacksmith class but my parents dont trust me lmao

Look up Tenn Appalachian Area Chapter of Blacksmiths (AACB), and Tennessee River Artist Blacksmith Association (TRABA).  Go to the meetings and learn more in a couple of hours than you can imagine.  Take the parents as it will answer many of their questions and concerns.

Purchase a brick of modeling clay which is less than $5.  Any thing you can do with modeling clay, you can do with metal.  It is a great way to solve problems and practice blacksmithing with needing a fire.  All the tools and tooling are the same, so when you go to the fire you already know what to do and how to do it.

2 hours ago, chrisyancy said:

and i would love to go to a blacksmith class but my parents dont trust me lmao

Trust me your just as safe or possibly safer at a blacksmith club meeting,

as you are if your using power tools for stock removal, burning a camp fire an talking to complete strangers on the internet! 

Like Glenn said, If your genuinely interested in blacksmithing talk with your parents about taking you to a local meeting one weekend so they can see first hand the craft your interested in learning!

An don’t forget to bring safety glasses when y’all go!

Dear Chris, just a word about dealing with the craft and parents as an adolescent:  First, the main thing that the adults are concerned about is your safety.  This includes your parents and your honorary aunts, uncles and grandparents here on IFI.  We were all your age in the past and know that young men do not have a highly developed sense of self preservation.  Many of us here did some pretty dangerous and/or stupid things when we were young and are here today to talk to you only by luck.  So, we and your parents feel compelled to supply the voice of reason and caution because we, from our own experience, know that it can be pretty soft spoken in folk your age.  Most of us can recall our own parents doing the same.

Interesting enough this lack of caution in adolescents does not appear to be species specific.  Near Hot Springs, SD there is a mass mammoth grave yard that was created over time by mammoths approaching and falling into a steep sided sink hole of water and not being able to get back out.  Almost all the individuals are adolescent males.  All curiosity and little caution or experience.

The suggestions about approaching the craft through a blacksmith association with your parents or other trusted adult are excellent.  Even the adults may develop an interest if they are inclined towards making things.

So, hang in there and keep us informed if this develops as an interest for you.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Safety equipment is a must to show the folks running the meetings that you ARE interested in learning about the craft.  That is eye protection, ear protection, long pants, closed shoes (no flip flops, etc), a camera, and notebook.  Like has been said before, personal safety is your personal responsibility.  

These folks are the ones with the knowledge and wisdom you seek. Treat them with respect and they will return that respect to you.  They want you to succeed.  Once they see your interested, they will go out of their way to provide you with information and encouragement.  Do not be afraid to ask well thought out questions, or ask for additional details.  

Read the following for reference. It wanders a bit but you are interested in the usable content.

READ THIS FIRST 

How to safely ask curmudgeons for advice?

Curmudgeons have a crusty shell, but once you get past that, they are some of the best people you will find.  THEY have the knowledge you seek and will match their interest to the interest you show.  What ever you do, do not give up.  Blacksmithing is not a sprint, and there is no finish line.  Blacksmithing is a life long learning experience and a life long adventure.  Do not let anyone discourage you from learning, or put out the fire in your belly.  If someone tries to put out that fire, simple say thank you, and walk away.  Then look for someone that is as interested in your journey and quest for knowledge as you are.  They are out there, but it is up to you to find them.  Surround yourself with the smartest and best people you can find in any field, not just blacksmithing.  They are the ones you want to learn from.  

As a long time Curmudgeon I can honestly say, I have never told a young person to "Get out of my yard".

In 40 years of smithing I think I am up to 3 people who have been invited to NOT come back; pretty much all due to safety issues where they would NOT follow the "rules" provided.

I'm up to two I've shown the door and told they're not welcome one for wanton disregard for safety the other added theft to the list.

Chris: I believe I've been out of line offering you ways to do things your parents are afraid of you trying on your own. I was there once, as George says I'm lucky to have made it out of my teens, then got more serious and am REALLY lucky to have made it through my 20. We gladly offer you the benefit of our mistakes so you don't have to repeat them. Hopefully you'll come up with new ones we can learn from.

If they'd like please have your parents PM me directly we can talk. Hopefully I can show them directly how to approach blacksmithing in as safe a manner as possible and who knows one may become interested enough to take up the craft. 

I got kind of snappy with you earlier, remember? It's largely because you were being a typical youngster. You were trying to jump into a dangerous craft with little knowledge and zero preparation. If your folks would be willing to talk with me or better, George, I can suggest ways of letting you learn the craft and ways to discipline you regarding safety.

Seriously, in my shop you get a warning about a safety violation. Nobody is in "trouble" for making mistakes, we all do and it's my job to keep mistakes from getting people or equipment damaged. Do it again and you lose shop privileges until I'm satisfied you GOT THE MESSAGE and WILL pay attention when I say something. 

NOBODY gets a 3rd try.

Have your folks contact one of us. We're here largely to help folk learn the craft safely and the younger a person learns responsibility and safety the deeper it takes root and the more likely said youngster is to be successful. In this and any other craft they take up.

Frosty The Lucky.

im generally am somewhat safe when i do stupid things    but i dont think my parents would listen to people on the internet bc apparently everyone on the internet is a kidnapper lmao 

but they did say we might be able to go to the AACB conference in may    so maybe

Uh HUH, so they ARE listening to people on the internet or they wouldn't know about the conference. Hmmmm?

Frosty The Lucky.

yeah but they dont know that lmao

 

Don't count on it, they're smarter than you think.

Frosty The Lucky.