bkelle00 Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Hey y'all! My name is Brent. I'm new to this forum, new to forging, experienced with welding and basic fabrication and trying to expand my skill set. I found this forum looking for information on forge burner problems, liked what I was reading and decided to stay and thought I should say howdy. Anyways, have a great day and stay safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 Welcome aboard Brent, glad to have you. What's up with your burners? Who's plans did you follow? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 I have to say "If you are getting your feet wet---you are doing something wrong!" Goes along with "If you think blacksmithing is cool----you are doing it wrong!" Tell us what equipment you have and what you want to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 9, 2021 Share Posted November 9, 2021 And pictures, we LOVE pics! It helps us evaluate what you have and are doing, makes us more effective with suggestions, etc. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkelle00 Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 Being new and unsure to forge burners and forges in general, i looked for commercially available propane burners through various online stores. Unable to find anything like what I was expecting (as if I knew what I was looking for lol) I bought a couple of burners off of ebay from a guy in Texas that makes them. I then went to the hardware store and bought enough fire brick, angle iron and brass fittings to make my forge body. Fast forward a couple of weekends and I have "made my forge". The burners are, I believe, 1" i.d. spaced 9" center to center with a MIG tip of unknown size (not marked) acting as the jet being fed by 1/4" pipe fed from a 20 psi adjustable regulator. The problem I am having is that the left burner runs steady with the choke sleeve in various positions. However, the right burner sputters on and off never staying lit or running steady with the choke sleeve in various positions. I also noticed that it takes quite a while for the file I was beating on to get to a bright orange, bordering yellow heat but it never gets hot enough to weld. Being the attentive reader I am, I noticed in a lot of posts the requests for people to do some research before posting a problem. I have started my sifting through the posts and just the little bit I have read so far I have noticed a few problems in my design/use. 1. I should probably not completely block off one end of the forge while its running because the spent fuel needs to exhaust somewhere and since the right burner has its opening blocked off, its causing the exhaust to back up and essentially blow out the flame 2. The burners should probably have bigger air intake openings. Currently, four 1/2" holes, 2 on each side of the burner. 3. The burners should probably be spaced closer together and closer to the center. Currently 9" center to center 4. Not real sure, but my brass feed tubes should be 1/8" pipe instead of 1/4" pipe as the goal is to increase fuel velocity and the current nipples aren't able to accelerate the propane enough? These are my initial hypotheses and I am probably off base some. ThomasPowers. to answer your question, I'm interested in all things blacksmithing with an emphasis on blade-smithing. I saw an episode of The Woodwright's shop on PBS and saw the host helping to make and install a new outer wagon wheel ring and I was hooked on the idea of forging and to a lesser extent fabricating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Welcome from the Ozark mountains. It looks like you did a bang up job on building your first forge and I bet the folks here will help you get it running. They sure helped me when my wife & I built our propane forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave51B Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Welcome fellow Hoosier. Just how far north are ya? There are some pretty good satellite groups of the IBA up there you may want to check out. I am not a gas guy, but do enjoy beating on hot stuff...... Life is Good Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Howdy, and welcome aboard. It looks like you're off to a good start: asking the right questions, adapting existing skills, and putting your forge on something nonflammable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Hmmm have you checked if there is anything blocking the mig tip on the *inside*; perhaps a bit of thread tape/pipe dope/drill shaving? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Good point. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's clean. I just found some bits of crud blocking three fuel channels in a brand new oxypropane cutting tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkelle00 Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 I was wondering that myself. I'll have to check that when I get back to it. 12 hours ago, Irondragon ForgeClay Works said: Welcome from the Ozark mountains. It looks like you did a bang up job on building your first forge and I bet the folks here will help you get it running. They sure helped me when my wife & I built our propane forge. thanks ForgeClay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 17 hours ago, bkelle00 said: I then went to the hardware store and bought enough fire brick, angle iron and brass fittings to make my forge body. 17 hours ago, bkelle00 said: I also noticed that it takes quite a while for the file I was beating on to get to a bright orange, bordering yellow heat but it never gets hot enough to weld. Typically the type of fire brick that is sold at hardware stores is the heavy hard fire brick. These bricks are not very insulating, which means they soak up a lot of heat, and that can cause a forge to take a long time to heat up. It may also limit the max heat you can reach. If you are going to use bricks for the forge body you want insulating fire bricks (IFB). These are much lighter, much more fragile, and much more expensive. However, they can withstand the heat produced in the forge and they hold the heat in much better. The recent consensus on here is that Morgan K-26 bricks are among the best insulating fire bricks available at this time. You still may want to put a piece of kiln shelf, or possibly even a hard fire brick, on the floor to protect the more fragile bricks from mechanical damage as you move stock in and out of the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkelle00 Posted November 10, 2021 Author Share Posted November 10, 2021 I'll look into those. I believe that those K26 bricks were the ones I was originally looking for but I didn't know what they were called (other than fire brick). 8 hours ago, Dave51B said: Welcome fellow Hoosier. Just how far north are ya? There are some pretty good satellite groups of the IBA up there you may want to check out. I am not a gas guy, but do enjoy beating on hot stuff...... Life is Good Dave I can just about spit into Michigan from where I rest my rump Dave, near Laporte, IN. I'd be really interested in talking to somebody in my area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 That's not a bad first forge for not knowing what you were doing. Not bad at all. As mentioned you want Morgan Ceramics K-26 IFBs they're surprisingly tough, take the heat and rapid thermal cycling of a propane forge. The burner on the right won't stay lit because it can't breathe. It's not picking up exhaust gasses, it's own exhaust path is all but blocked by the burner in front. While I prefer multiple burner forges spaced evenly between doorways and burners, yours is close enough. If you wish to stay with a brick pile forge I suggest you mount your burners horizontally near the top, angled so it impinges the far wall at a downward angle. OR angled so it impinges the floor more than half way across at an angle. You want the flame to form a strong SWIRL in the forge. It makes even internal temperature and improves hang time. Hang time is the length of time the flame stays inside the forge transferring energy to the liner where it can radiate back into your work. Try reading a little about "Reverberatory Furnaces" for the low down on how they work. We need to talk about your propane supply circuit a little bit. As a rule of thumb you want as little weight and leverage hanging from your burners as possible so you can lose almost all that . . . stuff, you have on yours. You don't need large pipe/tubing to supply enough fuel, I feed four 3/4" T burners through a 1/4" nipple in the circuit. The manifold is 3/8" iron pipe because that's the size I could find 1/4 turn ball valves. From the valves my circuit is 1/4" copper refrigerator tubing. I bend the copper tubing in largish loops so bumps don't bend or kink things and they pretty much support themselves. I've since made the copper lines longer for more give and adjustability and the rectangular pads on the burners have been replaced by floor flanges. Pic below. Please note the forge is still under construction, the paint is unsinged and the fire brick is unscorched. It has K-26 fire brick now and is largely retired as WAY too big. The other forge pictured below is a clamped brick pile forge, as an example of horizontally mounting the burner. These are from a club 2 day burner and forge clinic Member cost including regulator, hose and plistex kiln wash was under $100 ea. The pic shows one about 4-5 minutes after being lit and that's a 1/2" T burner. They reach welding temp easily and sip fuel. I'm starting to ramble, I'll sign off for a while Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkelle00 Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 Thanks for the info Frosty, I'll be making adjustments for sure. Updates to follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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