Dan N Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 Ok have a few more pictures. The only markings I have found so far. Will try to figure out how to ad my location. Right now DFW area in texas also the Smokey Mountains in TN and outside of Traverse City Mi. Just trying to sell everything off before I go. Any help will be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Arm and Hammer; made in Columbus Ohio. They are the only maker I know that left the steam hammer marks on the underside of their heels. The Caplet indentation is better known with Trenton anvils, also made in Columbus Ohio, but they were known to have shared bases. I have a clearly stamped Arm and Hammer with a caplet base as well as a Trenton. Weight on the left of the foot serial number on the right. 155, 16735 (Serial number is from around 1912-1913). Considered a top tier anvil! Decent shape, some wear; do the bounce and ring test to check for hidden issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 Oh it rings not sure if I can bounce it though. Thanks for the help now I have something to go on for research. Where would the name be stamped if it has one?Thank you so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 The ball bearing bounce test is to take a say 1/2" ball bearing and drop it on a clean spot on the face from 10"---use a ruler because you then record how high it bounces. The rebound height is a measure of how hard the face it. 70's ok, 80's good, etc; below 70% generally indicates that the anvil was detempered, usually in a structure fire. and so significantly lowering it's value as a *using* anvil. By dropping it from 10" and reading the bounce on the scale you get the percentage automatically. It must be a ball bearing and not just a round steel ball as you need the extremely hard surface to the ball bearing so you are not measuring the hardness of the ball instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Note: Anvils don't bounce, don't try that Okay, they might bounce a little bit, but there's no need to test that. Nice anvils by the way! I doubt you'll have much trouble finding them a new home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 Ok beat on them a bit more and found 1 3 11 Would this be the wieght on the Hill? The picture is from the one identified as arm and hammer. I can't make it out but have not found anything that looks like it yet what say you? And thank you for putting in one of my locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 The one in this picture is a Trenton 1 3 11 would be 207lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 Thank you I had been using them for over 40 years and never thought about it untill it was time to part with them. I still remember the day I got the Hill I was told I could have it for free if I could carry it to the truck without putting it down. Once I picked it up they said I had to follow them. They took the long way up and down stairs but I made it. Sadly now I stuggled to get it on the cinder block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 I was using my anvils before I knew what brand they were as well. The history is interesting but a good anvil is a good anvil, and a not so good one is not so good regardless of the makers name. Good deal on the Hill anvil haha. Well worth the struggle. Think about it's value it still has and all the work it helped you produce in 40years that was a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 Wow a Trenton; never would have thought of that with the markings under the heel; but stampings trump guesses! Would be a different date of course. I'm at work and so don't have AinA handy---anyone? (The American made anvil is marked in pounds of course, older English anvils are CWT, newer ones are Kg.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Serial Number 16735 should have been made in 1900 according to Postman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 Wow you guys are great!!!!!! OK now what do I have to find on the Hill to date it? And here is a free fish pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Isaac Hill was a manufacturer in the mid-1800s. I have a Hill anvil without a pritchel hole, which generally dates it pre-1830 but I've read that Hill made anvils from 1830-1850. Yours is likely in that date range and I assume I have one of the earlier ones. I did not see much, if any, swell underneath the pritchel hole on yours, however, so it could be an early Hill that was drilled later. Either way, it's from the early-mid 1800s and looks to be in excellent condition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 Thank you so much. Now I just have to xxxxxxxxxxxxx and try to figure the going rate. I have seen prices all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I know I don't need to tell you to not confuse asking prices with selling prices; many people seem to think that what someone posts as an asking price is the selling price; when it may be quite a bit off from what they got for a selling price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Also be prepared to haggle, blacksmith's are famous for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 The Hill might be harder because it seems to be a rarity here in the U.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Best thing to do to prep for sale/haggling is to clean them up with a wire wheel so all the markings are as clear as they can be, and pay extra close attention to cleaning the face. If there's anything but clean metal there, it will negatively affect the rebound and give your buyer a stronger haggling position. I recommend that you do NOT take a sander or grinder to them in any way. That will upset some folks. Don't worry so much about the maker if you're selling to a smith. Collectors might care, but most smiths will care about the condition of the face, the edges, and the rebound. If you're talking to a young person just trying to get into the hobby, consider giving them a healthy discount to help them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 I have been working them a bit at a time with a wire wheel. Just bought some boiled linseed oil to rub on them. Will the oil effect the ball bouncing? Still looking for a ball bearing does size matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 Well, you wouldn't want to drop a 12 pound bearing on your anvil. I use 3/4-inch ball bearings, myself. If you make sure to wipe off the excess oil, that should be fine. One thing to note, I've tried a few different bearings of different steel and they will give you different results. The best/most consistent bearings I've found are item S2 Tool Steel from McMaster Carr, Item #1995T18. Also, it's not like you have to provide potential buyers with a ball bearing to test with. I test my own just so I know what I've got. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 A thicker layer of oil will lower the bounce results. I prefer nothing on the face and BLO everywhere else if rust is a problem in your area. Note there are actually very few anvil *collectors* in the USA; so the majority of the market is for folks who won't give US$5 more for a rare anvil. Better luck trying that on folks who don't know much about anvils. There were over 200 known anvil makers in the UK back in the day. Most of whom didn't export to the USA and so an anvil that may be quite rare in the USA may be rather common in the UK. (You could always talk with Fred Moore in Moriarty NM, he's a "collector" had over 700 anvils last time I heard; he doesn't smith though and he drives a hard bargain I have heard. Of course he probably has a dozen of them already...The magazine "Enchantment" put out by the Electrical CoOps in NM did an article on Fred and listed his phone number in it---more anvils for Moore!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 11, 2021 Author Share Posted March 11, 2021 I would rather see it used as intended and would hate to see a flipper profit of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I don't mind a flipper making a reasonable profit... I look for unknown anvils so covered in crud that they might be worthless, and then clean them up and do research on them, and sell them for $3-4/pound usually. Or I keep them in my shop and sell off a less desirable anvil. I do the same with vises and drill presses and whatever else I stumble across. I've run into some real jerks at estate sales that make a business out of it, though. I just try to improve my shop and have fun finding and cleaning up old metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan N Posted March 12, 2021 Author Share Posted March 12, 2021 So the less desirable ones go for 3 or 4 bucks a pound. I am still cleaning them up my back needed a break today. Still hunting a ball bearing to see if they pass that test. I see I have been moved out of the sale section. The hand crank forge is a 400 still looking for the rest of it and my propane one. Found a decent size vice as well. Will post more pictures as I am able. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Well, $3-4/pound is a good price for a solid anvil. More than that is getting real expensive, less than that is for an anvil that has some serious defects. This is all my opinion, based on my location and experience. There are other folks here with a LOT more experience than I have! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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