bzrkr Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Hi. I'm working on a forge that will be insulated with Kaowool. I have a product made by Vesuvius called Ultra Max. It is intended to be used as a Tundish liner, and the short description given on the website is as follows: "ULTRA MAX* ultralow cement castable with exceptional alkali resistance, high strength and excellent thermal shock resistance" I plan to use it to coat the Kaowool, but don't really have any instructions on how to use it, fire it, etc. Would I just mix it with water and trowel it onto the surface of the Kaowool like any other castable? I'm guessing that it probably is just that simple, but this stuff is meant to be sprayed onto the inside of tundish boxes and I just wanted to make sure that it didn't need to be applied in several thin coats in order to dry/cure properly. Has anyone used this type of product for lining a forge over top of a ceramic blanket material? Any input will be appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louspinuso Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Maybe someone on the board has used it and can give you instructions, but your best resource for getting that information is to contact the manufacturer. I tried looking on their website but I can't seem to find the MSDS for that product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Welcome to IFI! If you haven't yet, please READ THIS FIRST!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Knowing where in the world you are located helps with answers, hence the suggestion to edit your profile to show location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzrkr Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 10-4. I'll take care that. I live near Atlanta, in NW GA. I haven't been able to locate the MSDS yet either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 OK so that's Georgia, USA and not Georgia a country next to Russia or South Georgia Island; fun being part of the WORLD WIDE WEB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzrkr Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 LOL Yes, Georgia, USA. I've clarified that now in my profile. Thanks. I emailed Vesuvius, and if/when they reply, I'll post it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 Thank You! I've been amazed at how many duplicates are out there; Just NM, USA has a San Antonio and a Las Vegas to confuse people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louspinuso Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 bzrkr, I know you said you emailed Vesuvius, but where did you get that product? I'm pretty sure that re sellers in the US need to be able to provide certain safety and data sheets for material they carry and it might be quicker to get an answer from that source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzrkr Posted April 8, 2019 Author Share Posted April 8, 2019 I got it for free. Basically leftovers someone had from some other process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 I'll have to keep an eye on the thread. I know what a tundish is now anyway. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzrkr Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 I haven't heard back from Vesuvius, but I did get hold of an SDS. The listed ingredients are: Chemical Name CAS Number % Range Aluminosilicate 1302-93-8 65.00 - 75.00% Aluminum Oxide, Non-fibrous 1344-28-1 15.00 - 25.00% Cement, Calcium Aluminate 65997-16-2 3.00 - 7.00% Silica Fume 69012-64-2 3.00 - 7.00% Cristobalite, Crystalline Silca 14464-46-1 0.10 - 3.00% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 By comparison, Kastolite 30 is: Silica - SiO2 35.8% Alumina - Al2O3 56.7% Titania - TiO2 1.1% Iron Oxide - Fe2O3 0.9% Lime - CaO 4.8% Magnesia - MgO 0.2% Alkalies - Na2O + K2O 0.6% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 So, chemically speaking it is better than Kast-O-lite, since it contains calcium aluminate as a binder, These formulas mention nothing about the forms those ingredients take (how much of the silica content is in the form of mini bubbles). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzrkr Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 Just to give a bit more backgroud, the product in question is used to line tundish boxes in the steel making process. A tundish box is a large container with nozzles that is suspended above a caster. The box is filled with molten steel, and delivers the molten steel to the casting equipment via the ceramic nozzles. The refractory is usually mixed with automated equipment and sprayed onto the interior panels of the tundish box, similar to gunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louspinuso Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 How much do you have? I'm asking because you may want to just experiment with it. The fact that it contains a cement product implies to me that this is a curing product so you would have to keep it moist and let it cure. The application doesn't sound much different than how concrete (gunite? shotcrete?) is applied to forms to make pools and I know you can lay concrete by hand. Also, when working with any concrete/mortar mixes, if you don't have exact directions on volumes of water (or other liquid) to dry powder, always err on the side of too little and add water sparingly (like drops or teaspoon fulls) and mix again. You'd be surprised how little water can get you from "almost perfect" to "soup". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzrkr Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 I have 10-15 lbs of it. I know the tundish boxes are fired within one day after being sprayed with the stuff, so I'm not sure about needing moisture, or how much, or for how long. The guys that use it just dump super sacks into a huge automated mixer (Rented from and programmed by Vesuvius) that adds the appropriate amount of water and mixes it itself, so they really can't tell me much of anything useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Interesting way to ensure both accuracy in mixing and limitation of liability, not to mention an additional income stream from the rental fees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzrkr Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Vesuvius never got back to me, so I just went ahead and used the stuff. I mixed it with as little water as I could get away with and packed it in by hand. Seems to have worked about like one would expect any castable to work in this sort of application. It does seem to have more aggregate than I would have expected, so its not a smooth finish. I may sift some and do another thin layer on the bottom to smooth things out a bit before I fire it. But, I plan on using some bricks in the bottom to take up some volume, so it may not matter anyway. Its been curing for close to a week. I've really no idea what type of heat schedule to use, so I guess I'll just wing it and hope for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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