Recommended Posts

Hi.  I'm working on a forge that will be insulated with Kaowool.  I have a product made by Vesuvius called Ultra Max.  It is intended to be used as a Tundish liner, and the short description given on the website is as follows:


"ULTRA MAX* ultralow cement castable with exceptional alkali resistance, high strength and excellent thermal shock resistance"

I plan to use it to coat the Kaowool, but don't really have any instructions on how to use it, fire it, etc.  Would I just mix it with water and trowel it onto the surface of the Kaowool like any other castable?  I'm guessing that it probably is just that simple, but this stuff is meant to be sprayed onto the inside of tundish boxes and I just wanted to make sure that it didn't need to be applied in several thin coats in order to dry/cure properly.  Has anyone used this type of product for lining a forge over top of a ceramic blanket material?  Any input will be appreciated.

 

Thanks.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe someone on the board has used it and can give you instructions, but your best resource for getting that information is to contact the manufacturer.  I tried looking on their website but I can't seem to find the MSDS for that product.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10-4.  I'll take care that.  I live near Atlanta, in NW GA.

I haven't been able to locate the MSDS yet either.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK so that's Georgia, USA and not Georgia a country next to Russia or South Georgia Island; fun being part of the WORLD WIDE WEB!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL Yes, Georgia, USA. I've clarified that now in my profile.

Thanks.

I emailed Vesuvius, and if/when they reply, I'll post it here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank You!     I've been amazed at how many duplicates are out there; Just NM, USA has a San Antonio and a Las Vegas to confuse people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

bzrkr, I know you said you emailed Vesuvius, but where did you get that product?  I'm pretty sure that re sellers in the US need to be able to provide certain safety and data sheets for material they carry and it might be quicker to get an answer from that source.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got it for free.  Basically leftovers someone had from some other process.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll have to keep an eye on the thread. I know what a tundish is now anyway.

Frosty The Lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't heard back from Vesuvius, but I did get hold of an SDS.  The listed ingredients are:

Chemical Name                              CAS Number     % Range

Aluminosilicate                              1302-93-8            65.00 - 75.00%

Aluminum Oxide, Non-fibrous      1344-28-1            15.00 - 25.00%

Cement, Calcium Aluminate         65997-16-2          3.00 - 7.00%

Silica Fume                                      69012-64-2           3.00 - 7.00%

Cristobalite, Crystalline Silca      14464-46-1             0.10 - 3.00%

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By comparison, Kastolite 30 is:

Silica - SiO2                      35.8%
Alumina - Al2O3              56.7%
Titania - TiO2                     1.1%
Iron Oxide - Fe2O3            0.9%
Lime - CaO                         4.8%
Magnesia - MgO                0.2%
Alkalies - Na2O + K2O      0.6%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, chemically speaking it is better than Kast-O-lite, since it contains calcium aluminate as a binder, These formulas mention nothing about the forms those ingredients take (how much of the silica content is in the form of mini bubbles).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to give a bit more backgroud, the product in question is used to line tundish boxes in the steel making process.  A tundish box is a large container with nozzles that is suspended above a caster.  The box is filled with molten steel, and delivers the molten steel to the casting equipment via the ceramic nozzles.  The refractory is usually mixed with automated equipment and sprayed onto the interior panels of the tundish box, similar to gunning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much do you have?  I'm asking because you may want to just experiment with it.  The fact that it contains a cement product implies to me that this is a curing product so you would have to keep it moist and let it cure.  The application doesn't sound much different than how concrete (gunite? shotcrete?)  is applied to forms to make pools and I know you can lay concrete by hand.

Also, when working with any concrete/mortar mixes, if you don't have exact directions on volumes of water (or other liquid) to dry powder, always err on the side of too little and add water sparingly (like drops or teaspoon fulls) and mix again.  You'd be surprised how little water can get you from "almost perfect" to "soup".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have 10-15 lbs of it.  I know the tundish boxes are fired within one day after being sprayed with the stuff, so I'm not sure about needing moisture, or how much, or for how long.  The guys that use it just dump super sacks into a huge automated mixer (Rented from and programmed by Vesuvius) that adds the appropriate amount of water and mixes it itself, so they really can't tell me much of anything useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting way to ensure both accuracy in mixing and limitation of liability, not to mention an additional income stream from the rental fees. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vesuvius never got back to me, so I just went ahead and used the stuff.  I mixed it with as little water as I could get away with and packed it in by hand.  Seems to have worked about like one would expect any castable to work in this sort of application.  It does seem to have more aggregate than I would have expected, so its not a smooth finish.   I may sift some and do another thin layer on the bottom to smooth things out a bit before I fire it.   But, I plan on using some bricks in the bottom to take up some volume, so it may not matter anyway.

Its been curing for close to a week.  I've really no idea what type of heat schedule to use, so I guess I'll just wing it and hope for the best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.