New anvil, no markings need help (lots of pics)

[HP500]

I just picked up this 145 pound anvil today that is in  very good condition.  I wire brushed it, but I can't find any markings on it except for a 7 stamped on the bottom. It has a very good rebound and a loud, high pitched ring, especially in the heel area. It looks like the body was cast because there is an obvious seam. I did an internet search, but came up empty. I thought it might be a Fisher, but it doesn't have the typical Fisher markings. It does have some unusual circle marks on one side, but I suppose that could be from use.  Any ideas? 

 

[ThomasPowers]

What's the ball bearing test like?

[HP500]

Thomas, rebound is at least 90%

 

[ThomasPowers]

Then it's a good anvil; the maker is only an indicator of the chances of an anvil being good---I've seen at least one of most common makes of anvils that were Bad due to abuse, structure fires, misguided welders and machinists...

[Judson Yaggy]

Perhaps a West.

[HP500]

Thanks for the replies. I haven't had a chance to put it to the test yet, but it seems like a very good one. I'll try to test it with some hot metal later this week. I'm more curious about it than anything.

I did some more research and I though it might be an unmarked Columbian, but a West as suggested by Judson is a distinct possibility. It sounds very much like the West in this YT video. Mine has a very annoying high pitched ring. I put some strong magnets underneath the heel and that helped quite a bit.

 

[Frosty]

Yeah, that's annoyingly loud, you are wearing ear protection yes? Put it on a steel tripod stand, you'll be amazed how it takes the badness out of the ring.

Frosty The Lucky.

[HP500]

I will definitely need to wear hearing protection using this anvil. A friend told me about pulling the rare earth magnets out of old computer hard drives and using them on the anvil to reduce the ring. I tried it and it worked surprisingly well. 

I'm still very interested in learning what brand of anvil this is. Any way to know for sure?

[ThomasPowers]

No markings?  Not really; after all there is a foundry down here making cast copies of old anvils so even if it was distinctive in shape it might not be "real".

I keep expecting some of the knockoffs to get fettled well and fake markings stamped and start showing up with the prices so high. (The knock-offs are not heat treated and the alloy depends on what was left in the ladle at the end of the day so some are OK and some are ASOs)

[HP500]

6 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

No markings?  Not really; after all there is a foundry down here making cast copies of old anvils so even if it was distinctive in shape it might not be "real".

I keep expecting some of the knockoffs to get fettled well and fake markings stamped and start showing up with the prices so high. (The knock-offs are not heat treated and the alloy depends on what was left in the ladle at the end of the day so some are OK and some are ASOs)

I'm not sure what you mean by your no marking question. All I could find was the number 7 stamped on the bottom.

I bought this anvil at an auction. It was at an estate auction of a 92 year old blacksmith/gun maker. His dad was also a blacksmith. The stump it was mounted on looked like it had at least 90 years of grime/sweat/dirt. etc. on it. The anvil itself was loaded with grime and some surface rust before I hit it with a wire wheel and BLO. While I can't be positive, I'm pretty sure the anvil isn't a knock off.

[ThomasPowers]

You seem to believe that folks didn't make knockoffs 100 years ago---why? The presence of small foundries was much more common.

My comment was that if you didn't have any markings on the anvil to tell what it was then you are just "guessing".

I have an anvil missing everything above the waist; but it had flats on the feet and the weight stamping was consistent with a Peter Wright, and one of the few true experts in the field, Richard Postman, examined it in person and told me he would guess it was a Peter Wright but could not guarantee that due to the lack of stamping.

If you can't use an anvil cause you don't know WHO MADE IT; sell that one on and get one with clear makers marks.

My smithing predates Postman's book and so in those days anvils were usually judged by how they "rang and sprang" and NOT by any maker.

I find people obsessing over makers and dates to be a waste of energy that could be plowed into smithing!

[HP500]

Sorry Thomas, , I thought you implied that the anvil might be a recently manufactured knock off, which I’m pretty sure it is not. The part of the country I bought the anvil from was at one time well known for steel making, so it could very well have been a locally made copy of something many years ago.  I buy blacksmithing equipment to use, not to flip for a profit, so as far as using it goes I really don’t care what brand it is as long as it performs well. It is in better condition than my Peter Wright and has better rebound, so it will get a ton of use.

My main purpose for this post is that I’m very interested in the history of blacksmithing and blacksmithing equipment, so this anvil piqued my curiosity. I know there is a ton of experience on this forum, so I thought there might be a chance someone else here may have come across an anvil like this once before and would know some history behind it.

The previous owner seemed like a very interesting and creative man, so I would have welcomed the opportunity to talk to him about his blacksmithing business, the anvil and some of the things he made with it over the years. Unfortunately, this was not possible. If practical, I will most likely attempt to remount the anvil to the old stump it came with, just to keep the history going.

[ThomasPowers]

Remember having it at the correct height for *you* is more important than the historic stump.

[Frosty]

There's a bit of steel town history that isn't necessarily common knowledge. A not uncommon journeyman  test was a large casting, anvils were popular. The local RR foundry cast Lancaster pattern swage blocks and gave them to the old Road Commission and later State vehicle shops. I have the one from the local Heavy Duty shop. It's a beautifully cast gray iron block. I understand they cast steel as well.

A LOUD anvil benefits greatly from a steel stand and a tripod is always stable. A steel stand damps the resonance that makes a hard anvil ring so loudly. Honest, it turned my ear damaging Soderfors from a make your ears ring through plugs and muffs LOUD to a not unpleasant clank. Spectators don't cringe and back away now.

Frosty The Lucky.

[HP500]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the information. 

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Another way to tame the ring of anvils is to mount it with calking compound. I have two that were so loud ear plugs didn't really help, after the calk I can use them and they are as quiet as my Vulcan.

[HP500]

24 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

Another way to tame the ring of anvils is to mount it with calking compound. I have two that were so loud ear plugs didn't really help, after the calk I can use them and they are as quiet as my Vulcan.

Thanks! I definitely need to do something to dampen the ring. I believe this anvil is cast steel. It is much louder than my Peter Wright.

[ThomasPowers]

Yes the West anvils are cast steel.

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

My MP Farriers anvil is cast steel and the calking worked a treat, also on our Hay Budden, both loud ringers.

[HP500]

6 minutes ago, Irondragon Forge & Clay said:

My MP Farriers anvil is cast steel and the calking worked a treat, also on our Hay Budden, both loud ringers.

How did you apply the caulk? Did you cover the entire base of the anvil, just the perimeter, etc.?

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Just a heavy bead around the perimeter, drew the outline on the stand.

[MC Hammer]

I used a router to rout the shape of the anvil base to the stand.  If you don't do this, watch it, because when you have the clear silicone calking under the anvil it will slide like it's on ice and if your historic stand isn't level you'll have to keep it in place somehow until the silicone dries.  Be liberal with the silicone caulking!  I used a half a tube and I think I could have used more.  It still knocked the ring of my Trenton down to nearly nothing and more like a Fisher anvil.  This works!  I still use hearing protection as the "Thwap" is still loud enough to do damage over the long term.  

If your historic stand is not at the right height for you, I'd consider trimming it from the bottom.  The fresh cut on the bottom won't be seen and any chipping due to sawing it off could be carefully touched up with stain to hide the fact that you cut it for height and level purposes.

I'm very concerned about the casting marks though.  My steel block is not hardened steel and it's noticeable in a ball bearing drop - not much rebound.  That block was so loud I had to bed it in silicone calking when I permanently made it into a flatter station.  So ring only tells you that the piece is solid.  The steel ball bearing test will reveal if that top is cast steel or if a hardened plate was welded on there.  The cast line near the face plate in one of your pictures tells me it's likely all cast steel.

[HP500]

Thanks MC Hammer, I appreciate the info. The rebound on this anvil is very good, at least 90%. I may try to post a video of it. My goal this weekend is to mount the anvil and to get some hot metal on it. Fortunately, the height is already perfect for me, but I will need to level out the stump just a tiny bit. I am really looking forward to putting it to the test.