Burner choice

[Alex w]

I am planning on making a propane forge and I am just wonder what burner should I build I thinking of a Venturi or a ribbon burner, it needs to be a. quiet b. Efficient. Ps if you have any plans or ways to make the burners they would be much obliged. Thank you 

- Alex 

[Buzzkill]

Given  your preferences you should definitely go with a ribbon burner, however one does not preclude the other.  There are a couple threads on here regarding naturally aspirated ribbon burners (NARBs) which give details about how to make them.  If you wish to go with a blown ribbon burner, Wayne Coe has plans on his website for that.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/48001-naturally-aspirated-ribbon-burner-photo-heavy/

 

[Alex w]

23 minutes ago, Buzzkill said:

Given  your preferences you should definitely go with a ribbon burner, however one does not preclude the other.  There are a couple threads on here regarding naturally aspirated ribbon burners (NARBs) which give details about how to make them.  If you wish to go with a blown ribbon burner, Wayne Coe has plans on his website for that.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/48001-naturally-aspirated-ribbon-burner-photo-heavy/

 

I have looked up ribbon burners and I find them a bit complicated to get my head around in text form (instructions) is there anyone that has got designs of a ribbon burner that is simple and easy to understand. I also forgot to add it has to be cheap.

1 hour ago, Alex w said:

 

 

[timgunn1962]

More detail would be helpful. How big do you need the forge to be? What are you intending to do in it (forging, welding, Heat-Treating? What size of workpiece?). 

"Venturi" and "ribbon" are not mutually exclusive. The Venturi part is one way of getting air and fuel to mix. Other ways are non-Venturi Naturally-Aspirated designs and blown designs.

The Ribbon part is a multi-port burner configuration. Most of the more common designs are single-port.

In the UK, you'll probably be best served with a single-port burner based on an Amal atmospheric injector. They have very good turndown and tend to be reasonably quiet when run at at low pressures, even with a single port burner. When run at high pressures, they are loud, but this is true of nearly every burner design I have encountered. 

The ribbon burners are at least an order of magnitude more difficult to make than a simple single-port burner (which is basically just a piece of pipe). Ribbon burners are very good for certain, quite specific, things. They are not a magic bullet.

There's a lot to be said for keeping things cheap and simple to start off with, then working out what you need to progress once you've worked out what direction you want to go in.  

[Alex w]

I would need it for basic forging I wouldn’t want one to large or to small, I just need to build a burner because I have fire bricks already from my old coal forge. So I just need to figure out a design which I’m not good at because I haven’t made any before. If you have any designs would you be able to share them with me

5 minutes ago, timgunn1962 said:

In the UK, you'll probably be best served with a single-port burner based on an Amal atmospheric injector. They have very good turndown and tend to be reasonably quiet when run at at low pressures, even with a single port burner. When run at high pressures, they are loud, but this is true of nearly every burner design I have encountered. 

 

 

[Frosty]

Alex: I suggest you take a class or two, maybe meet up with a club or individual blacksmith willing to let you use their equipment. I do NOT want to discourage you but you just don't know enough to have a clue what you need. What you want before you know what you need is almost always a future dust collector. 

As evidence I offer your words. You don't want one "too large or too small" then you say you only need a burner because you have .fire bricks from your old coal forge.

Fire brick is NOT appropriate for a gas fired forge, they do not insulate any better than an equal thickness of limestone so they conduct heat right through them. Secondly they are a huge heat sink meaning they require considerable fuel to get hot enough to work in. Once to forging temps it then conducts the heat to the outside air. 

If you're going to use a gas fired forge, OTHER than a chip bed forge, you need to do a little reading. "Forges 101" on Iforge is the most current discussions regarding propane forges, materials, construction, sizes shapes, mistakes, follies, common myth debunking, some bad jokes, some good ones,  etc. "Burners 101" is the most current discussions regarding propane burners of all types. 

If you can drum up some hands on experience with an experienced blacksmith you'll save yourself many mistakes. Honest, I've made most of them and would like to save you the headaches.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Alex w]

Frosty, I wish I could take a class or speak to a blacksmith but there is none in my area they are all either too far away or too expensive. I was just thinking of building a burner to test if it would work then build a body out of refractory. thanks for the advice. 

-alex

[Frosty]

Take it from someone who has already made that mistake. It don't work worth spit. You need an insulating refractory, ceramic blanket or one of the high temp ceramic fire brick, K-26 by Morgan Thermal is a product to read about to get an idea what you need as a minimum for a basic brick pile forge. You may need a different brand on your side of the pond. 

If you go with ceramic blanket it WILL need a hard refractory inner liner AKA flame face to protect the blanket from mechanical and thermal damage and YOU from the breath hazard posed by airborne vitrified ceramic fibers. With the advent of higher temperature insulating fire brick a brick pile forge becomes very attractive for it's ease of construction and flexibility, you can change the shape when you discover the first shape and size isn't working as well as you'd like.

How much burner you need is determined by YOU. You need to calculate what the volume and shape of your forge needs to be. The volume and shape determines the number, size and the positioning of burners. Long and narrow requires more smaller burners to make even temps throughout. 

This is all laid out in detail in the Iforge threads mentioned previously. 

There are even pictures of what, how and whys of it all.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Have you contacted BABA?  (baba.org.uk) If not you most likely don't know where the closest hobby smiths might be.  (West Midlands, seems like I've seen posters from there before here...)

Good to know you are not contemplating building a gas forge from hard firebrick.  I've always be amazed at the folks who say "I can't afford to spend say  50 pounds for insulating refractory; so I'm going to save money by spending 200 pounds in extra propane to use the forge made of free hard firebrick."

 

[Mikey98118]

9 hours ago, timgunn1962 said:

In the UK, you'll probably be best served with a single-port burner based on an Amal atmospheric injector. They have very good turndown and tend to be reasonably quiet when run at at low pressures, even with a single port burner. When run at high pressures, they are loud, but this is true of nearly every burner design I have encountered. 

He makes a good point, seeing as you are having trouble "getting your head around" the easily available information on burners given in the Gas Burners forum. You need to remember that burners are interchangeable in forges. When you are ready to build or buy a first class burner, then you will be ready to pay the price in money and/or work to build or purchase one.