picker Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 The shop I'm helping restore is an historic blacksmith shop circa 1920. It is located at a settlement park. There is a nice forge and plenty of good space. The shop is part of a relocation and restoration venue of old buildings - a church, dog trot homes, one room school house, train depot, and vintage homes that have been taken apart and restored. The Champion 400 blower has some grinding, and slipping gears. I haven't taken one apart in 20 years. I'll be sure to make a video so I won't end up with extra pieces... I opened her up and took a good look - it's pretty clean, but the bronze gear teeth look a bit worn and thin. I'll replace the bearings and tighten up as much as possible. My questions: regarding tolerances and timing with the worm gear, are there any bushings on this gear? Also, the small queen gear seems to have a timing problem and isn't quite lining up with the larger gear, thus grinding. I tightened the internal screw and the nut, it seems to help the timing, but becomes too tight to crank freely. Any tips on this guy before I commit to it would be appreciated. Thnx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Where in Arkansas? I'm originally from Fayetteville with my Father's kinfolk in Fort Smith and my Mother's in Cedarville. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Beuler Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Howdy picker, Joey van der Steeg has a good video of about 45 minutes on overhauling the Champion 400 on YouTube at this link~ If the link doesn't show his channel is "Blacksmithing - Joey van der Steeg",you will find it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 Hey thanks, I watched this yesterday. Gives me a bit of confidence. I think I tracked the problem as I was peeking into the works today. The worm gear isn't tight against the bronze gear, thus the grinding. I will overhaul it next week and provide an update. I'm hoping the bronze gear has enough life, and teeth to keep on working. Everything on outside of the unit looks okay. Brass caps are still in place, the housing isn't cracked and the impellers look fine, no bends or warps. On 4/10/2018 at 10:40 PM, ThomasPowers said: Where in Arkansas? I'm originally from Fayetteville with my Father's kinfolk in Fort Smith and my Mother's in Cedarville. I'm in central Arkansas, outside of Cabot near the Air force base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Appreciate that video---I also have one at our local museum that was on my list of eventual "projects" to get to and wasn't aware that he had made a video of this. Helps a lot to not have to bumble my way through it. One question to add to this discussion---color? Our 400 is currently red and the paint actually looks "factory". However, that doesn't make a lot of sense considering others I have seen over the years. So...was there a factory color? Is this great old paint job after-market by someone who took their time many years (decades) ago? Seeing the insides, I'm thinking this one needs to come off the floor also--currently, kids like to crank, some like maniacs. That now seems pretty risky for that bronze gear. We have a cheaper one with straight cut gears that can be used for the kids instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 Here is the update on the 400 I'm overhauling...She hasn't lived a charmed life. She looks rough. The bronze gear looks pretty worn down. But, it seems all the parts are there down to the correct nuts and bolts. I thought the bushings on the bronze gear were going to be a tough nut, but they came out for the first time in over a hundred years. I'll replace the bearings, and clean her up good (big job), regrease her, and give her a nice coat of paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 That brass gear does look Worn from what I can see in the pictures.. the rest doesn't look so bad. Here are pictures of one I'm working on. It doesn't slip and is just rusty on the outside and needs cleaned up. I am debating grease fittings in the bearing caps per a machinist friends recommendations. But anyway.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 24 minutes ago, picker said: regrease her, Nope, they are designed to run with oil. What appears to be grease is old dried out oil. or someone used grease which probably is why the brass gear has wear like that. Chainsaw bar oil with a little STP will work well. Don't over oil it because they all leak when full, just enough oil for the lower gear to ride in and sling the oil up will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 Yes, the caps were full of coagulated grease. Will do on the bar oil and STP. Thnx for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted April 28, 2018 Author Share Posted April 28, 2018 Finished putting the 400 back in service today. It was a real pleasure to work on. Every part and piece was inspected, cleaned and polished. In my haste I didn't think to open the top and photograph the gears and innards. Will post that tomorrow. I was just happy that it worked almost like new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted April 28, 2018 Share Posted April 28, 2018 Looks great. Nice job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 Finished putting the 400 back in service today. It was a real pleasure to work on. Every part and piece was inspected, cleaned and polished. In my haste I didn't think to open the top and photograph the gears and innards. Will post that tomorrow. I was just happy that it worked almost like new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 Beautiful, she cleans up nice eh? Remember just a FEW drops of oil! I use chainsaw bar oil and a motor oil friction reducing additive, STP wouldn't do here the stuff congeals like a rock in winter. Oil good! Grease BAD! The problem with grease is it doesn't sling and when contact surfaces push it off it doesn't seep back like oil will. Grease doesn't work on the guides on my Little Giant where you'd think the thicker stickier stuff would but a little oil works a LOT better. Grease needs to be contained like in a wheel bearing and there isn't anything like that on a Champ 400 blower. Anybody know how Champion designated model #s? My Champ 400's crank and gears are 90* to the one shown. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted April 29, 2018 Author Share Posted April 29, 2018 Yes, she cleaned up really good. She's snug, but not tight. Has the identifying whirrrrrr sound. No grease was used. I used a few drops of lite oil. For my next magic trick, fitting some correct pipes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 HAH! Adapting what you have is properly blacksmitherly even if they didn't have drier hose in the 19th. century. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picker Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 Yeah, I know. I have a buddy who is going to fabricate the correct piping for me. Champion was smart with their custom piping set up. I'm sure they sold lots of custom units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozzy Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Thanks for this whole topic--it got me back on top of my personal one as well as "saving" the one from the museum from abuse to that bronze gear. I've still got a stuck cover screw that is soaking so I don't break it off in disassembly but your results have inspired me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCORPSCPO Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Great pics! I'm in the midst of restoring one and have everything ready to go back together. The problem is that one of the bearing cones is unusable. I've been looking for one with no luck and I'm about to make one on a lathe. My lathe (sherline) is not made for much more than brass. Would a brass cone be sufficient knowing that the shaft is really not high speed or torque? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JME1149 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 If I remember correctly, the cones are hardened steel, so yes brass would work, just not for long. Also, I recall it's an odd size thread in the cone. Search the topics here for Champion 400, I know it's been discussed before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Welcome SCORPSCPO if you read this thread, there is a great tip for searching the forum. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/53873-read-this-first/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaAqob's Hammer Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 I have a big problem!! A gear in my blower broke in five pieces and I have looked far and wide via the internet and can not find a replacement some Please help!!!! The circumference is roughly 4.5 inches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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