Dustin L Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 The Rub: First I considered building a propane forge. However, the materials I need seem to be eluding me at the moment and the insulators and refractories would have to wait until I have a few more $ in my pocket anyway. But I could go get a tank of propane just up the road right now. So I started thinking about a coal forge instead. Just so happens I already have all the tools and materials I need to make a 55 forge or a supercharged 55 forge. I just did a complete brake job on my car last year and still have the old disks and drums just sitting around the shop. I already have 2 55 gal. steel drums and can get more of them free from my employer. I have enough scrap laying around to make a very decent stand to put them on too. Won't cost me a thing other than a bit of sweat, blood and maybe a couple of tears. But I don't have any coal and not sure how I'm going to go about getting any. Now for... The Irony: I was born and raised and have lived my whole life smack dab on top of the Illinois coal basin. You can't hardly drive from one town to the next in Southern Illinois without going past at least one coal mine. When I was younger my great-grandpa (who retired from the mines) used to take his 1-ton flatbed ford to the coal mines to pick up a load of coal for his coal furnace in the basement. The house was always Toasty warm in the winter. I'm not sure because I'll admit I haven't explored that avenue yet, but I think those days are over. I don't think the coal mines will wholesale coal to the average "Joe Shmo" anymore. I think a lot of that stuff pretty much died out about the same time that my grandpa's generation did. I could be wrong and I do plan on checking on it anyway. If I can't buy directly from the mines then I will be forced to buy from a retailer which will no doubt be out of state and more than likely selling Illinois basin coal at retail prices. The Alternative: I did manage to find a website that is solely dedicated to selling coal specifically for blacksmiths and those few people who do still use coal furnaces for heat. He sells it in 25 lb. boxes. He will ship it and he includes shipping in the price but it does seem PRICEY to me. If you order it online it's $28.99 / 25 lb case. However, you do have the option of picking it up yourself for a lot less. If you pick it up yourself he only charges $6.00 / case and $5.00 per case if you buy 40 cases or more. And if you do the math 40 cases is 1,000 lbs. (or half of a ton) and it would cost $200. Unfortunately, it is a long drive for me. Fortunately, it is doable though, IF and only IF what I'm getting is a good deal and is going to be worth the extra time and expense. It would take me approximately 7 hours to get there. I figure with turn around time and stopping for eats, drinks, gas and restroom breaks I could get there and back in under 18 hours easily. If I could make this a once or maybe twice a year thing maybe it wouldn't be to awful of a compromise to make. Although just driving 10 minutes to the mine just a few miles from my house would be much better. And finally to... The point of all my rambling: I guess what I would really like is some general understanding of how much coal I might use. I realize that is a very broad and relative subject and will probably be very difficult (or impossible) to give any definitive answers to. Between family and work I'm not going to be at the forge every day But there will be weekends, vacations and holidays where I might spend 8, 10 or 12 at a time hammering away on some metal. It sure would be helpful to have some general frame of reference as to how much coal a person might go through on an hourly or daily basis or how long might a 25 lb case or even a 1/2 ton of coal last. If I could drive 14-18 hours and spend $200 - $300 dollars once a year then maybe I could make it work. But if I drive that far and pay that much and I'm out of coal again in a month or two then there is just no way. Any answers or advise given is much appreciated, thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Olson Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I have read that a 5 gallon bucket weighs between 34 to 40 pounds. On my longest day forging I do not think I have used half a bucket. So your looking at roughly 15lbs maximum per day. So your 25 lb box should last a least 2 days. Now this is only an estimation based on my experience with my forge. I have never measured how much i use because I am just trying to picture a bucket half full and how many scoops I can get out of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin L Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Thank you Kevin. That is the kind of answer I was looking for. That gives me at least a general idea of how much coal a person might go through in a day. So I might actually be able to figure up roughly how much coal I might want to pick up incase I end up having to do a lot of traveling to get it. I appreciate your feedback sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R. Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Coal use will depend a lot on type of forging done. Heavy welding heats obviously uses more fuel than light forging.Type of coal is important also. I am not sure what they mine in your area but I always heard western coal was high sulpher. Metilurgical coal is best. Here we were getting some really great sewell and pocahantas coal. Our best 'cadillac' coal source dried up, mine closed. Rumor is the mine is scheduled to reopen under new owners. We were able to pick up truckloads at the mine. I would suggest looking for other smiths in your area and networking to get coal in bulk. You can't beat versatility of coal forge but don't overlook an adequate flue to carry off the smoke and gasses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin L Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 David, Illinois has Bituminous coal. You are correct. It usually has a relatively high sulphur content. Not quite as high quality as what ya'll are mining in West Virginia. But the way I understand it is by comparison we just have mass amounts of it. Of course I would like to try some of the stuff you guys are digging up there if I ever come across any. For now though, just getting started in blacksmithing I would definitely settle for some of the local stuff. I appreciate your advice. I will definitely be looking at some ways to get some proper ventilation. I don't want to be choking myself out. Coal is a useful resource but I don't want to be breathing the exhaust directly any more than I have to. Also, I do plan on trying to meet up with the I.V.B.A. here in Illinois as soon as my schedule allows for it. I understand that they have some kind of meet in Mount Vernon from time to time. That's not to far from me. I even lived there for a while. I just didn't know at the time that I was so close to something that awesome. Thank you again sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Sulfur content shouldn’t cause you to much problems unlike you start forge welding, in general forging you should be ok. If you build a side blast instead of a bottom blast using charcoal to forge weld (or buying bags of coke if not) becomes an option. Besides a side blast is generally easier and less expensive. Two drums give you plenty of material for a hooded sideblast and stand to place it on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryCarroll Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Dustin, a couple of years ago a friend and I drove his dump truck that holds a couple of tons of coal (stoker size chunks) down from Momence, IL to Brazil Indiana to a coal yard that had pocahantas coal from West Virginia. We paid around $200 a ton and got a lot of really good blacksmithing coal. Health problems (old age stuff) has kept me outta the forge for sometime so I don't know if the coal yard is still there but I don't think Brazil is far from you. I have a couple of 55 gal. drums of Illinois coal from an old yard that closed here that I have used just for general heating and beating stuff and if I didn't have good venting I couldn't handle the sulfur smoke. I have had my forge shop for near 60 years and use coal for main forge. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Old related illness? Who is old? I thought the coal smoke preserved ya... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesaika Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 I'd say it mummifies you if anything charles and mummies don't make very good Smith's.... Might not be bad fuel though. I recently made me a side blast forge, burning charcoal in it for now, and can say that you should do it. I got mine set up for a grand total of $10, the cost of a hairdryer. I do still want a gas forge, mostly to make a clean environment for welding, but the coal forge has got me beating steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Actually charcoal makes a very clean welding fire. Excess air forming scale is a problem with all forges, as is heating to fast so the outside is starting to burn wile the inside is still below welding temp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin L Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 Charles, thanks for your advice on the side blast over the bottom blast I will definitely keep that in mind when I actually set down to plan my build. genesaika, I agree with you. Ultimately I would like to have multiple forges, coal and gas. The more options the better in my opinion. I've always heard from men wiser than me that you can't have to many tools. But we all have to start somewhere and I think a coal forge my be my quickest, cheapest, best option to get started sooner. Jerry, big thanks for the tip on Brazil, IN. You are correct. It is definitely a lot closer than the place over in Missouri that I was looking at and unless their prices have changed, a lot cheaper too. Possibly even better quality stuff. That's a win x 3. I'll definitely check into especially if I can't find a better deal even closer. Gentlemen, Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 How much coal your forge uses is largely dependent on the air supply. When I had an electric blower on my forge it used about 20 pounds of coal in a 6 hour session even with an air gate. When I switched to a hand cranked Champion blower the usage was cut roughly in half because while at the anvil the blower is not turning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin L Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 When you was using the electric blower did you keep it running constantly or was you turning it on/off as needed? I'm curious now as to what the pros and cons of an electric vs. hand cranked blower would be. Surely there is a good thread on the subject around here somewhere. I think I'll check on that as well Thank you sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 There is a place near Arthur IL. That has smithing coal. T I think the last I bought was 10.00 per 25 lb. The place is called Yoder's Gazebos , Amish owned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Bellows and hand cranked forges are quiet and off grid, blowers can be quiet, but need a way to shut off the air for hobbie work to conserve fuel. This is critical for charcoal, as it is a less dense fuel Sizing your fire for the work at hand is important as well for fuel conservation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I have a gas forge I made from a freon tank with a Ron Reil design burner, works well but I prefer my coal forge with champion blower, quiet and only burns hot when I want it to, saves fuel that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin L Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 You're right skeeter. There are a lot of Amish around Southern Illinois. I didn't even think about checking with them. 10 bucks for 25 lbs. seems a little bit high though. Thanks for the tip though still might be worth asking around with some of the local Amish community. What few of them I've met and actually talked to seem to be friendly enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 My blower ran all the time it was plugged in. The air gate shut off the intake but half the time I would forget to shut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryCarroll Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Irondragon, I use a blower from an oil furnace that has an air gate on the side that I rigged a lever on the front of my forge to that is easy to manage the air. I can leave the motor running and shut the air completely off as I come from the fire real easy. The blower is about 50 years old but is dependable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Im a weekend end rookie with a hand crank rivet forge. Usually forge for 2 or 3 hours per session and a 50 lbs bag of bit. smithing coal has run 10 or 12 sessions and I still have at least a couple more left. I am surprised with how little it uses. I use fire bricks to keep the fire small however. Im only doing small stuff as a beginer Long way from coal am I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin L Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 48 minutes ago, Rojo. Pedro said: Im a weekend end rookie with a hand crank rivet forge. Usually forge for 2 or 3 hours per session and a 50 lbs bag of bit. smithing coal has run 10 or 12 sessions and I still have at least a couple more left. I am surprised with how little it uses. I use fire bricks to keep the fire small however. Im only doing small stuff as a beginer Long way from coal am I I appreciate the feedback. Thank you sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Richter Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Using low sulphur coal cokes for many years now. Leave’s less ash, slack and smoke. The coke has a round fraction of ¾ till 1inch with allows a narrow disclosure of the work pieces by ember. A 50lbs bag last quit for a long time. Also using a conventional cast iron smithy tub with fire tong and ash release gate. Got those days only the cast iron hearth and build the smithy around it. The smithy breath by a 5inch very silent tube ventilator. Air power is adjustable with a tube valve connected with an aluminium hose to the hearth air chamber. I let the ventilator running all the time and use only the valve and the fire tong to adjust the amount of air. While hammering I close the valve and/or open the ash gate and the ember rests. To deal with the ember bed and concentrate the heat I use only a cloth ball of yarn to spray water around/ on it. Since a couple of months I discover the advantage of gas forges and there capability to keep a constant temperature while a series of work pieces is waiting to meet ‘Mr. Power Hammer’ so I use booth’s now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dustin L Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 Hans thank you for the the information especially the detailed photos and diagram. I like your setup especially that nifty tube valve that hooks up to your blower. Much appreciated sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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