brickman Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Trying to figure out what kind of steel these old wrenches are made out of. They're pretty old and the reason they were decommissioned and put in the "throw away" box is becuase the tips have been chipped on most of them. We have tons of them on the farm and am wondering what they're made from / can they be hardened / what they would be good for.. Most seem to be from "the billings and spencer co" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 These sorts of tools are usually made of middle C content Chrome-Vanadium or sometimes Chrome-Molybden alloys. They are good for low level knives - where the value lies in the shape and not in the high quality of the edge. If they are not too big, try some bottle openers (there is a whole topic full of ideas). Last but not least there is the scrap art line, search for the works of Ausfire, Daswulf, ScrapartOZ here in the IFI or for scrap art at Google. Although as much I can see from the pictures they are not in bad shape, so I'd collect a whole set from all the sizes - but you wrote you have tons of these, so maybe that's needless to do Bests: Gergely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickman Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 Yeah we have a huge amount of these.most were discarded due to chips in the mouth of the wrench. I might make some knives and bottle openers then, good practice for both =]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 I can't say if it would make a decent knife as I havnt tried, but you could test one and see if it hardens. If you go the bottle opener route here is one style I have made that people seem to like. If possible forge the less commonly used size and forge the oddball size. That way it could still be used for wrenching Most of my wrenches like that now are reserved to scrap metal sculpture tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemental Metal Creations Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 Those old wrenches are tough and harden pretty good, at least the ones I have tried. I have made some miniature battle axes out of them that people love. Unfortunately the only pic. I have wont upload. They would chop through a 1x4 and still shave curls off the edge of the board. When I make some more I will try posting pics again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickman Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 I was thinking about just making some kindling chopper style knives. stuff that needs to be durable enough to be beat with a mallet but doesnt need to hold a razor edge. More just for shaping practice is what i'm thinking. I also thought about incorporating the bigger ones into a new gate latch handle. The bottle opener is also a great idea, would make good gifts too =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Large enough wrenches should work fine for kindling splitters. Small ones would make good shop drawer pulls and lift handles for boxes and lids. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbojak Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Billings and Spencer was still forging simple carbon steel wrenches long after other makers had switched to more sophisticated alloys for their tools. If you get a closeup of the markings I might be able to roughly estimate the date and give a better idea of the alloy, though the end profiles certainly look like the older style which was produced into the 1920s. At one time B&S was a premium brand for adjustable and fixed end wrenches. They fell behind the times though and later attempt to modernize never gained much traction until the company was absorbed by Crescent Niagara and later killed by the Cooper Tool Group. The ones you have would probably make good candidates for repurposing. I have a small but growing collection of the old style Billings wrenches. They can be had very cheaply and I love the look of them. Especially the obstruction wrenches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickman Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 2 hours ago, jumbojak said: Billings and Spencer was still forging simple carbon steel wrenches long after other makers had switched to more sophisticated alloys for their tools. If you get a closeup of the markings I might be able to roughly estimate the date and give a better idea of the alloy, though the end profiles certainly look like the older style which was produced into the 1920s. At one time B&S was a premium brand for adjustable and fixed end wrenches. They fell behind the times though and later attempt to modernize never gained much traction until the company was absorbed by Crescent Niagara and later killed by the Cooper Tool Group. The ones you have would probably make good candidates for repurposing. I have a small but growing collection of the old style Billings wrenches. They can be had very cheaply and I love the look of them. Especially the obstruction wrenches. Awesome great info! we have buckets full of them so lots of repurposing =] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlasterJoe Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I just recently made a karambit out of a box end none plated wrench. I was surprised how easily the metal moved. If you do forge them use a soft hand. For hardening I heated to nonmagnetic and quenched in vegetable oil. It seemed to do the trick. If you look at my thread some of the guys had some really info on wrenches and vanadium. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/51118-wrench-karambit/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickman Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 13 hours ago, BlasterJoe said: I just recently made a karambit out of a box end none plated wrench. I was surprised how easily the metal moved. If you do forge them use a soft hand. For hardening I heated to nonmagnetic and quenched in vegetable oil. It seemed to do the trick. If you look at my thread some of the guys had some really info on wrenches and vanadium. https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/51118-wrench-karambit/ So i'm making a couple knives out of it, seemed to harden pretty well. I stll havent put a full edge on it yet as i'm making the handle but here's some pics. that was before a rough grind.. Here is the bottom one after i did the rough grind and quench. Rough fitting on the handle and guard.. Obviously that still needs shaped and worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Can you define "pretty well"? How does it do with the brass rod test? We've had people here telling us that their mild steel knives harden pretty well....(RR Spikes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickman Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: Can you define "pretty well"? How does it do with the brass rod test? We've had people here telling us that their mild steel knives harden pretty well....(RR Spikes) Did a file test (havent heard of a brass rod test?).. The file skates across it easily. I also pounded it into a big stump i have out front quite a few times and it left no indentations or marks from what i could see.. Definitely much harder than the "high carbon" railroad knife i made and quenched, but probably not as hard as the 1095 i have sitting in the corner of my garage :P.. This is going to be used as a outdoor utility knife that needs to be more durable than to hold a razors edge, and i think this will serve the purpose well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 See you had data you didn't share! If you search on brass rod test knives you will find a large number of hits, including videos and discussions about it back and forth. Some very good knifemakers use it to give an idea of how the edge is working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickman Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 Just now, ThomasPowers said: See you had data you didn't share! If you search on brass rod test knives you will find a large number of hits, including videos and discussions about it back and forth. Some very good knifemakers use it to give an idea of how the edge is working. I will give that a look when i get a chance =].. I have hoarded a ton of really old files from estate sales from the farms in my area and i plan on doing some knives from those as well. It was really fun making these two. =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 I used to snatch up all the old black diamond files (pre Nicholson stamp) at the fleamarket and now I find I have a drawerful that I moved 1500 miles and will probably not run out of them before I run out of me. The old ones were 1.2% carbon and so I use them to juice up billets and for edges in San Mai.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickman Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: I used to snatch up all the old black diamond files (pre Nicholson stamp) at the fleamarket and now I find I have a drawerful that I moved 1500 miles and will probably not run out of them before I run out of me. The old ones were 1.2% carbon and so I use them to juice up billets and for edges in San Mai.... Yeah i'm not sure the maker on some of the ones i've picked up (just havent looked through the bucket yet) But i actually got some great old Nicholson files in pristine condition still in box from what looks like ~1960/70s from what i can tell. Could be older. This is my good set though and they're not going to get re-purposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickpea Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Most wrenches if not all are made from high carbon tool steel, they make pretty good knives. I've heard people say it doesnt harden as much as they would like it to but it works just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Most wrenches if not all are made from MEDIUM CARBON STEEL as they are supposed to be tough and not brittle! Finally found one that actually listed an alloy: "All tools are forged using tough 4140 alloy steel." As 40 points carbon is below the eutectoid it's not high carbon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brickman Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 it seemed to have hardened really well in my quench oil. But i'm sure its nothing cmpared to my 1095 steel as far as edge retention.. This is mostly a bush chopper i'm making now so it needs to be durable and not brittle.. I'll stick to those kinds of knives for this stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Das, I had never seen that Design of bottle opener, It seems very simple, but elegant, Just went into the "blacksmithing inspiration" folder, hope you don't mind, thanks. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 2 hours ago, littleblacksmith said: Das, I had never seen that Design of bottle opener, It seems very simple, but elegant, Just went into the "blacksmithing inspiration" folder, hope you don't mind, thanks. Littleblacksmith Have at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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