Sling-it Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Just picked up an Arm & Hammer today. Found a deal that I just couldn't pass up, but she's a big'un! Maybe someone can help with a guess here. Table is 6" wide, and she's 38" tip to tail....even with an inch or two off the tail. I guess no one wanted that surprise, so she's been bobbed.. The word is this came from an open hearth steel foundry and was used to knock samples out of the ceramic dipper? The table is pretty worn down due to the repeated use, but the face hasn't been hardly used. Just a few pits from the foundry environment and wear by the table. I think it adds character. As near as I can tell the foot has 7686, and I can't find any sign of a weight stamped on it. Maybe a clean up will help. I've gotta find another bathroom scale before I can weigh it...something tells me one won't handle it, but 2 should give me a fairly good idea. I'm guessing mid 500's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Thought I'd add a pic of the "character" in this anvil. Sure wish the face was welded better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfudd Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Actually that is a pretty typical face-plate weld on the bigger Arm and Hammer anvils. They didn't waste time making em pretty. My big A&H has the weight stamped on the reverse side of the anvil, not below the logo. According to Postman A&H made anvils up to 500lbs altho Black frog has one that is bigger than that. Mine is 433 lbs and is a little over 37in long. Please put in your location! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaman Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Mines 490 lbs and measures 44 inches long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 2, 2016 Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 Took a look at the back side, and nothing but a blank canvas as near as I can tell. I may find something else in the cleaning though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Sling-it, with some wire cup cleaning, my guess is that there was/is a leading "4" digit to the serial number, I think I can see it faintly. A&H had several different logo styles, and I've been creating serial number ranges for each style stamp. That style was later in their history, so if that SN had a leading 4 digit, making the serial number 47686 would make sense. Fatfudd and Benjaman, could you please post pics of your side logo stamp and serial numbers for your A&H's? I'd love to add them to the logo database! Also could you two measure face width and heights too? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjaman Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 I sent you pictures quite awhile ago black frog. I can repost if needed but they should be in your messages. As for demensions it's 16" high 6" wide and 42" long i was wrong when I said 44" for some reason I had that number in my head lol Where do you keep the database you've collected? Id love to see what you've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Thanks! I forget who sent me what, and since not a lot of A&H's made I try to always ask whenever I see one mentioned. A slow going project, but fun to try piece together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 5 hours ago, Black Frog said: Sling-it, with some wire cup cleaning, my guess is that there was/is a leading "4" digit to the serial number, I think I can see it faintly. A&H had several different logo styles, and I've been creating serial number ranges for each style stamp. That style was later in their history, so if that SN had a leading 4 digit, making the serial number 47686 would make sense. Fatfudd and Benjaman, could you please post pics of your side logo stamp and serial numbers for your A&H's? I'd love to add them to the logo database! Also could you two measure face width and heights too? thanks! Assuming that is a 4, what year would you guess this to be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatfudd Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Frog- I too sent them to you along with pics of all my other A&Hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Thanks guys! Sling-it, if the leading digit is a "4", that would be a quite late A&H anvil, sometime in the early 1940's according to Anvils In America. From what I've been cataloging, there were at least six different A&H logos through the years, and a variation of the last one that could possibly be considered the 7th. We'll see as more examples surface for me to document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 With the knowledge on here, would anyone know what they were knocking the samples out of on this anvil? I'd love to even find an old one to keep with the anvil. I've seen some old video, but never an example of these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 On 10/2/2016 at 2:21 PM, Black Frog said: Sling-it, with some wire cup cleaning, my guess is that there was/is a leading "4" digit to the serial number, I think I can see it faintly. A&H had several different logo styles, and I've been creating serial number ranges for each style stamp. That style was later in their history, so if that SN had a leading 4 digit, making the serial number 47686 would make sense. Fatfudd and Benjaman, could you please post pics of your side logo stamp and serial numbers for your A&H's? I'd love to add them to the logo database! Also could you two measure face width and heights too? thanks! Did a little work with the wire wheel tonight, and verified there is a 4 in front....well, half of one anyway. Is the early 40's as close as your informatoin gets for a date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Frog Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 That is what is given in "Anvils In America". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 If you guys were to fix the point of the horn on this beast, how would you go about it? Without measuring, that tip is about 1" diameter? I thought seriously about making a new point and welding it on. I think it would be the least amount of heat to put into it. Weld, hose, weld, hose... grind to finish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Horns are not hardened, heat tip with torch and hammer back to a point using a larger sized hammer on the opposite side to back up your hammer blows...easy peasy. I highly daught the little time it will take to repoint the existing metal, you shouldn't have to worry about the face at all. No need to weld a new point on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 25 minutes ago, jeremy k said: Horns are not hardened, heat tip with torch and hammer back to a point using a larger sized hammer on the opposite side to back up your hammer blows...easy peasy. I highly daught the little time it will take to repoint the existing metal, you shouldn't have to worry about the face at all. No need to weld a new point on. That's an awful lot of horn to heat up and move. I got a feeling welding a new tip on would be easier. Back cut to get full weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Quick question: With the current condition of the horn, what can't you do that you want to do with it? If the answer is "nothing" or "I don't know" then you're probably better off using it for a while to see if you even want to bother changing it. Horns were sometimes intentionally blunted, and if you've run your thigh into a relatively pointy horn on an anvil you can easily understand why some people did that to their anvils. If you want/need to work on something with a smaller diameter than you have available now at the end of the horn then you might want to reshape it. Keep in mind that you can always create a hardy tool which mimics the pointy end of the horn, and that might actually be easier to use for some things. If it's just about making the anvil look "perfect" then I'd definitely use it a bit first as is. My 2 pennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 Buzz, I guess you've got a point. With 1" being the smallest I can get, the hooks won't be small at all, but I guess I could make a hardy to see how that would work out before actually working on the anvil. Assuming I decide to fix it, would 6011 or something like 7018 be the best? Maybe more to the point, standard rod, or a structural "harder" weld? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I have a welder, but am not a weldor but any stretch of the imagination. Several regulars on here have extensive welding expertise though. Since the 2 electrodes I have for the stick welder are exactly the ones you mentioned, I would use one of them, but that doesn't make it the right or best choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sling-it Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 The only reason I mention those is that they are deeper penetrating rods. 7018 is low sulfur and a stronger weld, but also a harder steel(structural). No need to go nickel since it's not cast, and 6013 isn't a deep weld(nicer looking welds, but that'll be ground off anyway). Surly no need for hard face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 I assume you already know this, but 7018 is supposed to be kept from moisture before use (i.e. rod oven) to avoid hydrogen embrittlement in the welds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 You would only be forging the tip to a point, forget the welding - easier to forge the tip to a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Ling Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 If you want a finer smaller horn, I would just recommend forging a hardy cone out of some 1 1/4" axle, at least that's what I would do. Littleblacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 7, 2016 Share Posted October 7, 2016 8 hours ago, littleblacksmith said: If you want a finer smaller horn, I would just recommend forging a hardy cone out of some 1 1/4" axle, at least that's what I would do. Littleblacksmith Exactly LB. Forge a Bick to fit the hardy hole. You can make it long and narrow and not take ANY chance of damaging the anvil itself. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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