Blacksmith noob Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Hi guys. As the name says I am a major newbie to blacksmithing. I made a gas powered forge cheaply to get started on small projects whale saving to invest in a bigger one. My issue is that I bought a thin piece of rebar at the hardware store and it won't get to temp. Now i want to know is it that my forge isnt creating enough heat or is rebar just made in XXXX and has a too high forge temp. And if so what do you guys thing is a good beginner metal. Thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Not a gasser expert but it looks like you have to much volume for the torch. Another layer of insulation (2" instead of one) will help. Another issue with small propaine cans is they get cold and the presure drops. After arresting those two issues, a regulator and a guage might be a good investment. Give us a end on veiw, as well as a picture of the dragons breath. This will help the experts diagnose the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 9, 2016 Share Posted September 9, 2016 Welcome aboard Noob, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you might be surprised how any of the Iforge gang live within visiting distance. Did you turn the torch up? As Charles suggests closing the volume down will help, even just another layer of Kaowool across the bottom for a floor will help. Closing the opening up as much as possible without choking the torch will help a lot as well. Rebar isn't consistent so makes a poor stock to learn the craft with. It's made to rather vague performance specifications, so long as it exceeds minimums it doesn't matter. The manufacturers don't need to be careful with consistency so whatever's in that shipload of scrap is just fine. You can get wild changes in steel properties in rebar from "mild" to tool steel, it just depends on what the magnetic crane dumped in the melter. I recommend you buy a 20' stick of either 3/8" sq. or 1/2" rd. hot rolled steel. Either of these shapes of bar is close enough to the same weight per foot as to make no difference either makes the same project just as well. This is a good size stock for a couple reasons, it's heavy enough to hold heat long enough for a new guy to get some work done before having to reheat it. It's also heavy enough your mistakes won't become permanent with just one or two blows. Lastly it's light enough you can get a project done in a reasonable period of time. Being able to complete basic projects quickly is important, you won't know enough to recognize when you are getting tired enough to take a break. Seriously, when I teach someone that's the second most important thing I'm looking for fatigue. #1 is safety. Doing good forging work is actually down the list a ways. Oh, you have a name, webhandle or nick? Calling you Noob will just confuse you with a bunch of other folk. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 Thank you for the advice, I will make the changes asap and share any changes. Also my name is John and live in Miami FL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 9, 2016 Author Share Posted September 9, 2016 I fixed it. She's working now. Still needs tweeting but it works. Progress is slow but it's something so I'm happy. Thanks for the help guys it means a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyw Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 If you are serious about forging, as far as a forge liner, there are much better materials to use. Read the gas forge section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 This is just a forge I made to get my feet wet I plan to make a more pertinent one in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Egads, what the heck are you using for a liner? That looks like plaster of Paris! Bad nube, bad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 Yes it is and it's working Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 John: (POP) Plaster of Paris, I just hope you put sand in it too!. No, it's NOT working, read what the experienced guys here say about lining a forge with plaster of . . . anything. Turn off Youtube, go sit i a corner and write "I will NEVER believe anything I see on the internet till I run it past folk who know what they're talking about." 500 times. No wonder you can't get past orange heat, nobody can with POP. it doesn't insulate as well as limestone is a good heat sink and worse it can't take much heat. IF you could get it to high orange or low yellow you'd be lucky if it only crumbled rather than spalling violently. No Portland cement either! If you use anything that doesn't get walked on or hold up walls with Portland cement in it you'll have to wear a dunce cap while you write i the corner. Portland cement concrete fails in high temperatures dangerously, it spalls shooting chips fast enough to stick in you. Get in touch with a local HVAC service company and see if you can talk them out of some ceramic blanket refractory, Kaowool is one brand. If that's a no joy contact Wayne Coe, he sells small quantities of everything you need to do it right and has links to sites with plans for virtually everything. Or heck ask me I'll tell you how to build a simple inexpensive forge burner. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 Guys I am aware of how terrible the forge is. I made to try out blacksmithing enough to invest into something better. It's very very hot where I live so I need to see if would like standing in naturally 100 degree heat on top of the heat that comes off the forge. It did its job. I also have plans to make a better one but don't own the tools needed ( welder, plasma cutter etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Acualy you have the foundation, either take a can like you have and line it with two peices of 1" koolwool or equivalent and line a can. No more tools than you have. Others have used soft (insulating) fire brick. Either carving one peice or two to make a small cavity. No real special tools. Your on the right track, but POP isn't a good ideal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 How do I get it to stay in the can is there some sort of adhesive I need to get as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFT Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 29 minutes ago, Blacksmith noob said: How do I get it to stay in the can is there some sort of adhesive I need to get as well? Rigidizer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aessinus Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Try a google search with the keywords "iforgeiron soup can forge ITC rigidizer" Be safe and Welcome ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 10, 2016 Author Share Posted September 10, 2016 Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 10, 2016 Share Posted September 10, 2016 Cut the insulation just a tad long and friction will take care of the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Aw come ON, we're just giving you a little friendly grief. Plaster of Paris has turned into an all to widely believed urban myth of a furnace liner. I got carried away, I do that sometimes. Like Charles said, cut the Kaowool or equivalent a little long and compress it to fit it'll hold itself in place. Use a rigidizer on it, ceramic blankets are fragile at temperature and the particles aren't something a person wants to breath. Just don't get too carried away for now. With a little hammer time you'll start to know what you need and modify or build new. Most of us have a couple few old forges collecting dust in the shop. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 11, 2016 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Or in my case piles of dirt... if you get in to the realm of gassers you will find you have several types and sizes, for effecency sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 12, 2016 Author Share Posted September 12, 2016 I really want to make one out of a propane tank but I don't have the tools is there something in between the crappy can I'm using and the tank that I can use as the shell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Lets see; you can make a propane tank forge with a hacksaw and a drill; perhaps you should look into a different hobby as those are tools commonly used in smithing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Since when do you need thousands of dollars worth of tools to contain some Kaowool and support a FEW lbs of work? Do a LITTLE math and determine how much forge volume you need. make a list of shapes that'll work for you. AFTER you decide how much volume you want for the chamber add about 2.5" all round for the liners. Now you have the inside dimensions for the forge SHELL. Then look around till you find something close enough to do, +/- an inch is golden territory. I've built perfectly functional propane forges with Kaowool and bailing wire. didn't provide for it shedding particles so it's a poor example of anything but a field expedient. I built that one to show a student he didn't need all kinds of special tools, materials and a medicine man to dance around it with chicken feathers on a rattle to make it work. Step back from the thought it' hard to build a forge. You just lack shop skills so you don't know some of the tricks. Forget a propane tank unless you have them laying around. Even then they're a lousy choice for a guy with limited tools and shop skills. I'll bet Thomas and I would make an entertaining conference demo racing to see who could put a propane tank gas forge together using only the tools found in a car trunk. Do conferences host "junkyard wars" competitions? I'd pay to sit in bleachers and watch half a dozen blacksmiths in a junkyard making some assigned project. Think about it, everybody has: PPPE, a book of matches and the hammer of their choice. They all start at the junkyard gate and are handed an envelope with the contest project and parameters. A whistle (steam of course) blows and they have what, 2-3 hours to turn in the finished project. And I DO mean finished, Would that be a crowd pleaser? Once word got out reality show producers would be lining up and bidding and best of all, we're blacksmiths we aren't going to let a producer tell us what to say or ad silly drama. Let them film and keep out of the way. Huh? Oh sorry for the digression. A gas forge is so easy it's on the order of a first session metal shop 1 project, say an hour with help, a day or two figuring it out from scratch is a generous time period. I could do this with a couple smooth rocks, one an anvil one a hammer and some nails to make: cold chisels and rivets with. The burner takes a slightly more advanced tool kit and skill set. This is FAR easier than forging a competent blade or are you going to make wall hangers? Of course a good looking wall hanger still requires LOTS more advanced skill sets than putting a large soup can forge together. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Go to the Forge Supplies page at www.WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith.com and study the two attachments there. Frosty has already referred to them. The purpose of the forge is to contain heat inside the forge. If you have a natural flame you should not get too much heat out in your area. Add an Air Curtin to blow the heat up helps a lot. Let me know if I can help you. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksmith noob Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Thanks a lot Wayne i printed out your plans and plan to get started soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I hope I didn't get too carried away I really didn't mean to come off that harsh. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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