imagedude Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 I managed to break my hammer today, a Blacker model C. The lower parallel arm broke, you can see from the oil that had penetrated the initial crack that it has been starting to break over a long period of time, hardly surprising given that the hammer is 70 years old: I'll fabricate a temporary replacement from strips of flat bar, I'll then forge a new bar. You can't simply use round bar as it tapers considerably. If both arms had busted at the same time it would have been interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Can you vee it out and reweld it? Might save you some work until you can make a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skunkriv Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Bummer. Just got her going too. Looks like that crack has been there awhile as you say. "would have been interesting"...that is quite an understatement LOL :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 yup looks like a welding project. position it so it fits back together, tack in 3 places. then put a bead of 1/8 7018 all the way around. set up in an angle iron jig, (piece of 1/4 angle with a piece of 3/8 by 2 flat skip welded on edge to the V so you have 2 45 angles off the flat, then cut out a section of section of the angle at the center). clamp the piece with the weld over the center opening and using an acet torch, cut a narrow V where the weld goes around (about 5/8 to 3/4 wide at the outside) and a little over half way thru. weld up using 7018 1/8 all exept the cap pass using stringer beads. roll it half over, and cut out the other side over half way, just so you barely cut into the first weld. and weld it up too. chip and clean well, then put a cap pass all the way around. check for warpage, and straighten while hot. then grind or machine the weld down making sure to leave no scratches or lathe tool grooves as it will break at the scratch. this is a tried and true method I have used many times for repairs similar in nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagedude Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 It'd be a brave man that tried to fix this with a weld, the metal is too far gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Salvati Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 WOW, that looks like cracks are running all up and down that bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 That almost looks like cast iron. I find it hard to believe the maker would have used that material in this application but maybe it was done to get a net shape part within a shorter cycle time. They overbuilt on the assumption it wouldn't break within reasonable limits. Somehow, your hammer developed a stress riser that propagated with time. If it is steel, it can be successfully welded as Jr described. I have welded large driveshafts that twisted in half using similar techniques and they held up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Where did it go? Its just a normal fatigue fracture. I used to see them all the time. Never had a problem repairing things like that. But then what do I know, I only fixed simple things like that for 50+ years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Another way you can go is to pull the two ends to the lathe. Find the centers drill and tap both ends. Use a good grade of all thread and thread them together. Then you can v-notch and weld as suggested above. I can not see both ends of the project and so I do not know if you are able to do this, but it is an alternative fix. Best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Just phone Neville Barnes up and he will send you a new one at reasonable cost, probably has them in stock Blacker Hammers and spares, (UK) 01427 838245 Neville Barnes Ltd, The Forge Padmore Lane, Upton, Gainsborough, Lincs. DN21 5NH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irnsrgn Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 best idea yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretch Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 It looks like real old steel. I am not a metalurgist so don't know how to weld something like this, I know from welding the old purer iron that it is quite different. Have welded small amounts, just didn't need the strength this needs, just find an old early 50's truck axle and forge a new one if not sure how to weld it. Good place to learn something new Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 If you don't *have* to repair it; remaking from less stresed steel would probably be a good idea. I'd worry about the *other* end if you repaired the broken end as it's been stressed how many thousands of cycles too. Better to start all over. OTOH we have all probably made repairs of necessity that then have gone on for years of service. I once made an exceedingly crude and ugly tool for a specific use telling myself I would replace it with a nicely made one when it broke---25 years later I am *still* waiting for it to break... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagedude Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 WOW, that looks like cracks are running all up and down that bar. I can see fractures running for half an inch in each direction hence my reluctance to attempt a welded repair, even though my father is a coded welder. The plane of the fractures is at 45 degrees to the holes drilled to accomodate the retaining pin for the hammer head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 28, 2008 Share Posted January 28, 2008 If I remember correctly this is not a simple bar, the end shown is retained in position by a wedge and retaining plate arrangement which allows the shaft to be removed. The other end is a knuckle, with a pivot pin passing through, holding it to the hammer head. I would still suggest getting a new one from Neville Barnes as per previous reply in this thread. If the connecting rod replacement is not the correct length, the head will not strike parallel to the anvil face, limiting its use It has been known on these hammers that if the head is not parallel to the face, then they can be adjusted by either using O/A to heat the bar and jump it up, to the required length, or remove and forge/ draw out to adjust to correct length. This would seem to indicate that the material used for this particular application is not cast iron. 70 years old is I believe quite new compared to my Blacker. and I have fitted new parts to it supplied by Neville Barnes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagedude Posted January 28, 2008 Author Share Posted January 28, 2008 If I remember correctly this is not a simple bar, the end shown is retained in position by a wedge and retaining plate arrangement which allows the shaft to be removed. The other end is a knuckle, with a pivot pin passing through, holding it to the hammer head. Correct, one end has a machined taper with a hole for the wedge, the other end has a ball joint with a hole for the retaining pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagedude Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share Posted January 29, 2008 I would still suggest getting a new one from Neville Barnes as per previous reply in this thread. Ordered a new arm today. cheers Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane Stegmeier Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Couldn't you afford two of them? If this one broke, how long till the other one goes, and would you be better off replacing them in pairs? Just a thought... ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imagedude Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 Couldn't you afford two of them? If this one broke, how long till the other one goes, and would you be better off replacing them in pairs? Just a thought... ;-) I'll be replacing both and keeping the surviving arm as a spare. There was only one new arm in stock so I'll just be fitting one for the moment. The 2 new arms should outlive me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Glad to hear you've got it sorted mate. See you at Owen's in March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 31, 2008 Share Posted January 31, 2008 Well then don't forget to mention me in your will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devon blacksmith Posted April 15, 2008 Share Posted April 15, 2008 Hi just to let you know that this happens to all the blackers and they are normaly welded, I have two both welded in the same place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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