New Guy from Maine

[Steamboat]

Hello everyone,

Long ago...about when the discovery of fire made mastodon steaks less chewy, and the first Pong game appeared in the local pub...I took a couple of evening courses in blacksmithing from a talented smith whose name has faded in memory, but whose lessons have remained with me...pretty much, anyway. It was great fun, but life and other projects intervened, so I haven’t stood in front of a forge for a while, although I’ve been involved with other technical pursuits requiring skills, knowledge, equipment, etc., that should cross over quite well into the realm of hot iron.

My renewed interest in blacksmithing stems from two sources. The first is the gradual (as time and budget allow) restoration of a 225-year-old house, which has a good deal of hand-wrought hardware, but is missing a number of items ranging from shutter hooks to andirons, fireplace cranes, light fixtures, etc. I’d like to create authentic-looking reproduction hardware that would be compatible with the home’s Federal-period style.

As to the other stimulus, my wife recently attended a blacksmithing workshop, which got her fired up, so to speak, about the hot metal scene, so I said I’d build a forge for her (which I also plan to use). We decided that the spousal forge would be of the propane persuasion.

My equipment and tools are currently divided between our restoration project house and our ‘regular’ home in Brunswick, but I've been getting things together on the forge project, which I plan to post in the Gas Forges section.

I’ve been building upon my existing knowledge by researching gas forges via books, articles, trade pubs, individuals, and of course this forum, which is a very good source of information, with informed members who actually agree on things...pretty often, at least.

I’m looking forward to some helpful discussions. I’m good at listening to advice, and I take criticism well as long as it’s constructive and not mean spirited. That said, I also have a tendency to question what I would call “popular wisdom” and have often strayed from the straight and narrow path to experiment with non-conforming ideas and approaches, some of which have actually worked very well...others, well, let's just say they were educational.

I also hope to draw on my varied background (one might say my “checkered past”) to contribute to the communal knowledge base from time to time.

By the way, my “Steamboat” moniker stems from my interest in 18^th and 19^th century steam technology.

Cheers,

Steamboat

[ThomasPowers]

Much better folk here of propane forges than I so I'll stike out in a different direction:

Have you sourced a copy of "Early American Wrought Iron", Sonn  ?

How accurate a replication do you plan to do?  (or wrought iron or mild steel?) 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Steamboat, glad to have you. It's unusual to have the missus' interest in forging iron get the spousal unit involved. Cool, is she a member here? We appreciate the different perspective the Ladysmiths bring to the game please tell her Frosty says Please.

Take a look through the gas forge pages and see what you like. Please feel free to ask questions, the more of a handle you already have on the subject the better the info exchange will be of course.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Steamboat]

Just now, ThomasPowers said:

Have you sourced a copy of "Early American Wrought Iron", Sonn  ?

How accurate a replication do you plan to do?  (or wrought iron or mild steel?) 

Yes! I picked up a nice used copy of Early American Wrought Iron, Three Volumes in One a few years back. It's a really wonderful reference book...tons of well-executed illustrations and some valuable provenance information as well. I'd like to produce some highly accurate reproduction hardware. As to material, sometime in the next couple of weeks I hope to stop by the New England School of Metalwork and see if I can purchase some wrought iron bar stock that they pulled out of an old mill in Lewiston. I haven't worked much with real wrought iron...just a few pieces a long time ago, but I'm looking forward to working with it again.

 

[ThomasPowers]

If you like the old stuff "Iron and Brass Implements of the English House" J Seymour Lindsay is another interesting one though focused on England. 

"Antique Iron"  "Survey of American and English Forms 15th through 19th Centuries" Herbert, Peter and Nancy Schiffer uses photos...

(and yes I own all the ones I have mentioned today)

[Lou L]

26 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Much better folk here of propane forges than I so I'll stike out in a different direction:

Have you sourced a copy of "Early American Wrought Iron", Sonn  ?

How accurate a replication do you plan to do?  (or wrought iron or mild steel?) 

Thomas, I'm considering buying a copy of Early American Wrought Iron (I found it reprinted for $76) but, being an somewhat of a tech nerd, I've decided to find digital copies of it since it is no longer protected by copyright.  So far I haven't found it but my search was not lengthy.  I did find s similar resource from the Williamsburg Blacksmiths that has some good information at http://www.williamsburgblacksmiths.com/Catalog/files/inc/dcea64f866.pdf.

I imagine it isn't shocking news for the regulars here but it is new to me and it may serve Steamboat well since he is in New England.

Welcome Steamboat, I'm new here as well and find it a welcoming place.

 

Lou

 

[Steamboat]

3 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Welcome aboard Steamboat, glad to have you. It's unusual to have the missus' interest in forging iron get the spousal unit involved. Cool, is she a member here? We appreciate the different perspective the Ladysmiths bring to the game please tell her Frosty says Please.

Take a look through the gas forge pages and see what you like. Please feel free to ask questions, the more of a handle you already have on the subject the better the info exchange will be of course.

Frosty The Lucky.

Thanks for the welcoming words. I think that as my better half gets into blacksmithing she'll want to join the IFI forum. She's really quite artistic, and I think that she'd adapt well to working with iron. I'll mention that Frosty invited her personally.

I've read through many posts in the gas forge section of the forum already, as well as several other areas, and have gotten a number of very good ideas. I've been checking it regularly. You should be seeing some project posts from me before too long.

 

7 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

If you like the old stuff "Iron and Brass Implements of the English House" J Seymour Lindsay is another interesting one though focused on England. 

"Antique Iron"  "Survey of American and English Forms 15th through 19th Centuries" Herbert, Peter and Nancy Schiffer uses photos...

(and yes I own all the ones I have mentioned today)

I seem to recall checking out the Schiffer's book some years ago from a library before I started the current house project. I'll have to revisit that one and also look into the Lindsay book as well, which I'm not familiar with. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Steamboat]

16 minutes ago, Lou L said:

... I did find s similar resource from the Williamsburg Blacksmiths that has some good information at http://www.williamsburgblacksmiths.com/Catalog/files/inc/dcea64f866.pdf.

I imagine it isn't shocking news for the regulars here but it is new to me and it may serve Steamboat well since he is in New England.

Welcome Steamboat, I'm new here as well and find it a welcoming place.

Lou

 

Thanks for the link, Lou. The Williamsburg Blacksmiths catalog has some really good examples of repro work. There are a number of pieces in their catalog that very closely resemble hardware and fixtures in our house. Much of their catalog hardware is earlier, but it crosses over into the Federal era as well. We 'think' that our house was built sometime between 1797 and 1805, but documentation is sparse, so we have to rely primarily upon the home's physical features and local oral tradition for dating purposes.

[ThomasPowers]

Oh there's lots more; I'm into historical stuff; but your house is awfully "modern" for me.  I've been making Renaissance cooking gear the last couple of years for a friend whose interest is in Medieval and Renaissance down hearth cooking... So I have "Savouring the Past", "Food in History" "Irons in the Fire"---warning there are several books with this title and only 1 deals with historical food preparation and have done a number of pieces from "The Opera of Bartolomeo Scappi" and some that are just redactions of period cookbooks "To the King's Taste" for instance.

I've been in the SCA for nearly 40 years and finally bought a house in a town that was named in 1598, Spanish of course no johnny come lately Jamestown or Pilgrims!

(Should think you could do some Dendrochronology to date it...)

[Steamboat]

Like you, Thomas, I get really involved with the past. I went back to school later in life and did my grad work in historical archaeology, concentrating on the ancient Near East, and did a couple of seasons of excavation work on the Temple of the Winged Lions at the Nabataean city of Petra in Jordan, but haven't worked in that region for some time. I did contract archaeology for a while in Utah, before going back to teaching in the communcation field, and now that I'm retired, I still get involved on a volunteer basis in local archaeology projects, both historical and prehistoric.

Creating Renaissance cooking gear sounds like an intriguing area for a blacksmith. I would think it would require a good deal of research. On the subject of historical cooking, my wife attended a "Colonial Cooking" workshop at Old Sturbridge Village a couple of years ago and had a great time. She may do it again sometime. One of the larger remaining projects in the restoration of our old house is to rebuild the original kitchen fireplace, with its accompanying beehive oven (which could involve blacksmithing). Unfortunately, the original kitchen fireplace had fallen down before we bought the house, but we have restored the other four fireplaces to good working order.

You are correct that dendrochronology might be able to provide at least a terminus post quem on our house, but of course there are some caveats for secure dating of the structure, such as the possibility that some trees may have been felled a number of years before being used in the house construction, or if an earlier structure had been torn down and the lumber recycled in our house, although I haven't seen any signs of that.

I like old cars, too. I've been involved in automotive restoration work for years. Currently restoring a 1954 Dodge M37. 

[SLAG]

Mr. Steamboat,

I know that this post may be a little off topic. But then again, it could prove profitable.

I suggest that you fully go over the house and property with a metal detector. There may be some very interesting finds to be found, doing so. The property is 225 years old. Who knows you may find a coin that is worth the price of the property. (unlikely, to be sure, but there have been Several such finds in New England. in the past 6 decades.) Good luck with that.

Could the house have been one of several colonial houses where "Washington slept here" ? If so the house could be converted into a deluxe tourist trap.

But I AM serious about the search.

Welcome to the forum, both of you and warm regards,

SLAG.

[SLAG]

Mr. Steamboat,

I presume that you have searched through old survey records for the  dating your house. I believe that your neck of the woods has a land titles registry for the purchase and sale of area properties. (the jurisdiction should be land titles and not the more "modern' Torrens system found west of the Mississippi River). Also the first population survey occurred in 1790. (mandated by the U.S. Constitution, to be done every 10 years for the numbers of House of Representatives). Such records could help in dating your abode. The local wills registry may bring forth information concerning the property and who owned it. 

The local historical society may, also, have records too. For example biographies, or diaries, etc. that mention your house or its construction, or incidents that occurred on the property.

But, I suspect that you already know that.

In any event good luck in your research.

SLAG.

[Steamboat]

1 hour ago, SLAG said:

Mr. Steamboat,

I suggest that you fully go over the house and property with a metal detector.

But I AM serious about the search.

Thanks for the welcome, and good suggestion. We actually did some metal detecting around the house when we were restoring the foundation, since we figured that the backhoe work around the foundation would destroy any location context of things found in the soil, and so I did some quick 'emergency' detecting with my old Tesoro unit to see if I could at least establish some accurate location data for some artifacts before the backhoe work began. We found a pretty good-sized pile of iron objects, pretty much all utilitarian stuff like chain links, broken hooks, a lock, broken tools, etc., but only two coins, and those were later (mid 1800s) and very near the surface. One of the coins might be worth about 50 dollars, so maybe dinner for two.  I keep hoping to stumble across an old "fencepost safe" somewhere.

[Lou L]

I love this discussion.  I do historically focused metal detection as well.  I usually end up finding loads of old blacksmiths nails and, while I should be excited by them, I really loathe them deep down in my soul.  I've  definitely found some good stuff and feel I could guarantee finding something good on your property.  My most impressive find was a silver Barber dime at nine inches deep.  It was a challenge!

i know it is a bit farm for you but there is a blacksmith in Goshen, CT who does historical iron work exactly in your wheelhouse. I think it's called "The Village Blacksmith".  I haven't been there but I have heard he is good.

Thomas, I used to fight sword and board in the SCA.  It was a while back but, being quite tall, I managed to hit a few knights in the back with my scorpion wrap.  They always ended up ringing my bell...but I scared them for sure!

[SLAG]

Fence lines are good spots, for post hole banks. As high as one in four deaths was sudden. (e.g. due to sudden illness or accident), And the deceased never got a chance to divulge the location of his hidey hole to family. Also, check around old tree stumps and standing tree trunks. Also any out buildings, or root cellars, or servant's quarters. (highly unlikely in Maine). The area around where the clothesline was situated is a good place to look. The house is also worth a close study. 18'th. and 19'th. century banks were notoriously unsafe businesses. (they often went out of business, like in the panic of 1837, etc.). Also, there is more chance that money was hidden, if the house was located in a semi-rural or country setting, at that time. Getting into town could be a real, time consuming chore.

The forgoing are just a few harmless suggestions.

SLAG.

Lou what is a "scorpion wrap". I genuinely do not know. Due most likely to my sheltered upbringing, (in a sheltered workshop?).

I look forward to your anticipated answer in due course.

Thank you,

SLAG.

[Steamboat]

1 hour ago, SLAG said:

Mr. Steamboat,

I presume that you have searched through old survey records for the  dating your house.

In any event good luck in your research.

SLAG.

Thanks for the suggestions. I haven't had much luck with deeds or probate records, but a neighbor who has been working in reorganizing the town archives may be helpful in finding documents that never made their way to the county recorder's office. I'm also trying to get a descendant of an early owner to check their personal records. I won't go into detail at this time, but the census records really didn't shed any light on the situation (so far), due to several factors that would take a while to describe, such as town ownership of the property, the home's function as a parsonage for the town meetinghouse, etc. I think the best bet would be any documents that may have been hiding in the town archives or documents from the descendants of early owners.

This might seem a bit off topic, perhaps, but not totally, since the home's history helps establish dates for determining stylistic motifs for the hardware that I'd like to reproduce. I can duplicate existing original hardware, but in some cases there may be no original remaining pieces of certain items, in which case it's important to be able to refer to known styles for a specific period for recreating those pieces.

[Steamboat]

1 hour ago, SLAG said:

Fence lines are good spots, for post hole banks.  Getting into town could be a real, time consuming chore.

Even today, the house is located in a very rural area. The nearest gas station is about six miles away, and the population of the whole township is about 700, scattered over a large area like many Maine rural communities. A trip to the bank would have been time consuming and not a day-to-day undertaking. Who knows? Maybe there's a little hidden cache somewhere on the 46 acres. They used to make bricks at the far end of the property, so that's another area to consider. And there were previous structures here and there which have been torn down over the years, including a few barns whose foundations are barely visible now. I haven't had time to explore the brick-making area yet, other than a quick surface reconnaissance. I wouldn't be looking specifically for a cache, of course, since the chances of hitting one are tiny, but rather to try to systematically find and record evidence for reconstructing the history of the property. That's the archaeologist in me.

[SLAG]

Never apologize for the archaelological traits in you.

I have been suffering from a bad case of archaeology for almost six decades. You're in good company. (if I may say so myself).

SLAG.

[Steamboat]

52 minutes ago, Lou L said:

I love this discussion.  I do historically focused metal detection as well.  I usually end up finding loads of old blacksmiths nails and, while I should be excited by them, I really loathe them deep down in my soul.  I've  definitely found some good stuff and feel I could guarantee finding something good on your property.  My most impressive find was a silver Barber dime at nine inches deep.  It was a challenge!

i know it is a bit farm for you but there is a blacksmith in Goshen, CT who does historical iron work exactly in your wheelhouse. I think it's called "The Village Blacksmith".  I haven't been there but I have heard he is good.

Finding old nails...I know what you mean. They turn up everywhere around here, outnumbering pop tops by about 20 to 1. "Another nail! Arrrg!" On the other hand, if I find any totally hand-wrought nails (not made by the early crude nail machines), that is potentially good news, since I'm always looking for sites from the late 1600s and early 1700s.

I'll see what I can find out about the blacksmith in Goshen.

[SLAG]

The first nail making machine was invented by a mister Ezekial Reid, around 1793.

SLAG.

[Steamboat]

46 minutes ago, SLAG said:

The first nail making machine was invented by a mister Ezekial Reid, around 1793.

SLAG.

Ah yes. That could enter into quite a discussion about dating structures from nails. I have quite a lot of material on nail history. Quite interesting, and there's some gray area here and there, in my opinion. But that's probably a subject for another topic.

[Steamboat]

1 hour ago, SLAG said:

The first nail making machine was invented by a mister Ezekial Reid, around 1793.

SLAG.

Lou and Slag, just to clarify... When I find hand-wrought nails, they don't necessarily indicate any specific date range, since hand-wrought nails have continued to be used to varying degrees far into the era of machine-cut and wire nails, but my point was that it does tell me that the nails could have dated from a very early period, whereas if I find machine-cut nails, it tells me that the nails themselves are definitely later than my date range of interest (late 1600s to early 1700s), and a structure associated with those nails is "probably" not from my date range of interest, unless it was constructed over an earlier site, or if the structure was modified or repaired at a later date, using machine-cut nails. If I find a lot of hand-wrought nails and NO machine-cut nails, that is even more interesting to me, as it increases the likelihood of an early site in my date range of interest, even though the site "might" be later. It's getting late...I hope that makes sense.

[Mark Ling]

10 hours ago, Steamboat said:

 but only two coins, and those were later (mid 1800s)

could you be more specific? were they large cents, seated dime, two cent piece...? to someone who enjoys metal detecting (especially the older sites) and coin collecting, you have me very interested. it sounds like you're house is similar to my dream site, if you already found two coins JUST by the foundation! got any pictures of the house, or the finds at the house?!

                                                                                                     Littleblacksmith

Also, metal detecting links pretty well with blacksmithing (at least I think). when I go metal detecting, sometimes, I'll go to a spot that someone has already been to, and all their "trash" will be on the stumps, logs, and rocks. The "trash" that they dug up, includes, axe heads, old irons, parts of wagons, parts of cast iron cookery, horse shoes, and a lot of other stuff. Not only are a few of those objects good examples of blacksmithing from back in the day, that can give you an idea of how it was made, by looking at the forge welds, bends, rivets, and so on but also they are good sources of actual wrought iron.

                                                                                                                       Littleblacksmith

[Lou L]

I usually only metal detect around foundations and walls I find in the woods.  It may be inaccurate but I date the stuff I find by the age of the trees I find growing in the center of the foundations or through the walls.  When I find a 200 year old oak in the middle of what was once a barn or house then I know there have likely been at least 250 years of disuse.

Every time I approach one of these scenarios I know I will have to work through a layer of nails that held the long rotted wood in place.  I can fine tune my detector to ignore the iron but then I miss other iron I may want....so every nail in an area has to come up!  Worse, rusty nails can get a "halo" effect and ping like they are silver.  That drives me mad.  I can now tell the difference but curiosity (and the deep seated hope that it isn't a nail THIS TIME) leads me to dig it up.

There are some go to tricks though.  Always check under the stone at the doorway because people would place a coin there.  Also, search for a depression in the ground nearby, it was likely the outhouse.  Swing your detector from the doorway and follow a logical path the the outhouse.  Almost guaranteed button finding technique.  In a way it allows you to connect to that person who was rushing to the bathroom and trying to get their pants unbuttoned over 200 years ago!

 

An aside: Denis Frechette (has a great YouTube channel DF in the Shop) has recently made a video asking for help collecting images of the craftsmanship of blacksmiths.  I suggested to him that an online forum where people can upload their images and comment on the location and possible age would be really cool.  Any ideas on a digital forum that would allow a group of people to build a catalogue like this and maybe allow blacksmiths to comment?  IFI wouldn't work because images get deleted after a while.  I'm thinking of a permanent database, like an interactive Internet book.  It would be a great reference and would give purpose to the stuff we dig up.

[Steamboat]

56 minutes ago, littleblacksmith said:

could you be more specific? were they large cents, seated dime, two cent piece...? to someone who enjoys metal detecting (especially the older sites) and coin collecting, you have me very interested. it sounds like you're house is similar to my dream site, if you already found two coins JUST by the foundation! got any pictures of the house, or the finds at the house?!

                                                                                                     Littleblacksmith

Also, metal detecting links pretty well with blacksmithing (at least I think). when I go metal detecting, sometimes, I'll go to a spot that someone has already been to, and all their "trash" will be on the stumps, logs, and rocks. The "trash" that they dug up, includes, axe heads, old irons, parts of wagons, parts of cast iron cookery, horse shoes, and a lot of other stuff. Not only are a few of those objects good examples of blacksmithing from back in the day, that can give you an idea of how it was made, by looking at the forge welds, bends, rivets, and so on but also they are good sources of actual wrought iron.

                                                                                                                       Littleblacksmith

I can't recall the specifics on the coins. My wife put them away somewhere. I'll see if I can find them. I think one of them was a large one-cent coin. 

The next time I'm up at the old house...probably this weekend...I'll dig out a box with some of the items we found and see what might be of interest to blacksmiths. There are a few hand-forged items. Other things that turn up around the property are old bits of rusted farm implements, most of which are relatively recent (early to mid 20th century). Maybe I'll post a few photos. Most farms had a dump site or two where discarded equipment and other things tended to end up. A lot of metal was collected and recycled back in WWII, but not all of it, as evidenced by several piles of "rusty treasure" here and there on our property.