Lou L Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 There is a great steel supplier near me that has a "bargain barn" in which you can find all manner and shape of mostly mild steels. The steel is $1 per pound and it is a tong maker's fantasy. I wandered through the place for an hour looking for medium carbon steel and found vats of structural bolts ($2.50/lb) both ASTM a325 and a490. Turns out the a490 are medium carbon and are heat treated and tempered and are very hard and tough. I found a discussion between metallurgists online who claimed they were commonly made with 4140 but one could never be certain. I figured it would be worth it to try using them to make a hardy cutter and other tools. The bolts are 7" long by 1" thick. I grabbed 7 of them for $25. Does anyone have experience using these? How would one approach making a Brazeal style hot cut with one of these? Should I grind off the threads? I have already annealed the one pictured twice and will do it again today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I'm not sure about the metallurgy questions, but I think it would be difficult to avoid cold shuts if you forged them without removing the threads first. Grinding them off would be my approach. I've seen folks who use mild steel for their cut off hardies. Mild will cut hot steel without damaging your hammer if you miss. Hot cut hardies work well even if they're not super sharp. I would image that you'd need to upset the bolt shank at the head end to allow you to forge the tapered hardy shank. I don't know how big your hardy hole is, but a 1" diameter round shank won't forge to a 1" square shank without upsetting. If your hardy hole is anything under 1" it might be easier to forge flats to match your hardy hole on the round shank and use the head as a bolster to weld a cut off blade to. If your hardy is 1" or larger, you could forge flats on only two sides until it spread enough to lock on diagonal corners of your hardy. It just occurred to me that you could thread a turnbuckle on the end of your bolt and fasten a chain to your anvil stand. That would allow you to lock your anvil tooling down. Of course, that assumes you've got a hardy hole that's larger than 1", and you've got some way to bump up the unthreaded shank enough to keep it from turning in the hardy. If you put a couple of nuts on the threads and localize your heat to the upper shank, you could strike the nuts while upsetting without damaging the threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 For what it's worth ...... I buy any size new HFS for $1 a pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 Smoothbore, we aren't used to deals here in CT. This is a pay to breathe state! Rockstar, thanks for the ideas. I was torn between grinding the threads and trying to find a way to use them. I figured that I would try making the hot cut hardy out of this material but not quench it. If it turns out too hard I can always try making small hatchets or punches and chisels out of it. (In the dream world in which I already have those skills.) My hardy hole is 1" (150 pound Isaac Hill). I was thinking I could upset the shank as you said but wasn't sure I could do it without marring the threads. Fortunately I grabbed two nuts to fit the bolts because your ideas was perfect. Now you,have me trying to figure out how to use one of those bolts as a lock down mechanism for any other tooling I make. I'm thinking I could weld tooling to 1/4 inch plate and lock it down with the head of the bolt. All pipe dreams aside, am I crazy for thinking I might have a shot of flattening the bolt head to create the cutoff portion of the tool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 The threads will only cause a problem if they are getting stressed. If they are just a shank they will probably be OK if left on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I'm in CT on business fairly often -- where is this place? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted August 8, 2016 Share Posted August 8, 2016 Bolts. Yep. I use em. Sometimes I just enjoy forging something and retain the threads so folks will understand what it was I did. This is 1/2" bolt. 'Errrrrrr.....Leaf-Bolt. ASk your local hardware for some. Sure they sometimes are coated with some life threatening zink or some malignant coating but it's JUST A BOLT. Throw it in the fire and walk away if you are that type. I am more concerned about running out of ammo during a zombie apocalypse, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 On August 6, 2016 at 11:19 PM, JHCC said: I'm in CT on business fairly often -- where is this place? It's called Logan Steel in Meriden, CT. They have a huge space called the Bargain Barn. Almost any size material you can imagine for $1/pound. Be sure to look up their new location on their website. They just moved to a bigger location and their new address isn't updated in navigation apps. On August 8, 2016 at 5:17 PM, SReynolds said: Bolts. Yep. I use em. Sometimes I just enjoy forging something and retain the threads so folks will understand what it was I did. This is 1/2" bolt. 'Errrrrrr.....Leaf-Bolt. ASk your local hardware for some. Sure they sometimes are coated with some life threatening zink or some malignant coating but it's JUST A BOLT. Throw it in the fire and walk away if you are that type. I am more concerned about running out of ammo during a zombie apocalypse, but that's just me. Your leaf-bolt is my goal! Thanks for the inspiration. Those a490 structural bolts are higher carbon and are not allowed to be galvanized for some engineering reasons (tensile strength loss due to the process). The a325 bolts can be galvanized. I'm planning on grinding off the threads and trying to make a hardy tool. When I fail I will try it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDarkNebulah Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Is it insane to try to just take two nuts and using them on either side of the hardy hole to secure the bolt? Essentially bolting the bolt through the hardy? That way you can avoid the annoying upsetting job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou L Posted August 18, 2016 Author Share Posted August 18, 2016 The threads aren't long enough for that. I'm definitely not looking forward to the upsetting job. I've been avoiding it because I don't have a swage nor a striker. I have my eye on a ten inch wide by eight inch high cylinder from my steel supplier. I may even have them machine it a bit for me. I need a way to hold the work so I can get at it without hot steel flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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