Shade's anvil

[Shade]

I am working on repairing a Peter Wright anvil I have it is a wrought base with a tool steel plate, the edges are damaged.  I purchased some Stoody 1105 rod for facing it.  I will be preheating it to 400°F prior to welding.  I picked the anvil up cheap years ago, $50 or so at a farm auction.  Just seeing what I can do to fix her up.  I have almost 30 years experience as a welder fabricator, so I know the welding end of the game.  Black Frog posted this over on my forum http://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm and I am using this procedure.  Since none of the plate is worn away,  I did an acid etch.  I don't need the Stoody 2110.  I have plenty of 6010 for the table and horn repairs.

I leveled the feet by milling off a bit of material.  Yes I made sure the anvil was as plumb and square as possible in my vise first.  Also there is a ~3/16" twist to the waist of my anvil, not that it matters but was interesting to see.  I am posting a few of the pictures.

It is marked 1  1  19 so 159 out of the factory.  I weighed it a few years ago and got 155 lbs. IIRC.  I will weigh it again when I am done.  I will also be building a newer and better stand for it.  This one is not very stable and a bit high for my use, and I am 6' 2"

I know some will be horrified by the milling and welding...

[Twilight Fenrir]

Eh, I welded up a 250lb Peter Wright that was a lot uglier than that one and it turned out fine. I think it's pretty common for people to tend to almost deify anvils as sacred objects that can't be touched. Personally, I'd rather see an old anvil be made useful again, rather than a lawn ornament. Best of luck to you!

[Shade]

7 minutes ago, Twilight Fenrir said:

Eh, I welded up a 250lb Peter Wright that was a lot uglier than that one and it turned out fine. I think it's pretty common for people to tend to almost deify anvils as sacred objects that can't be touched. Personally, I'd rather see an old anvil be made useful again, rather than a lawn ornament. Best of luck to you!

What rod or wire did you use to weld it up?  Pre-heat?

 

[Twilight Fenrir]

1 minute ago, Shade said:

What rod or wire did you use to weld it up?  Pre-heat?

 

I used ER70-S6 mig wire, and no, I didn't preheat it... I tried to, but it just wasn't going to happen with an anvil that big. I've been using it for 6-7 months now, and it's held up very well. The one edge I tend to hammer on a lot isn't perfect anymore... but that's it so far. And I can always just put a bit more on and re-grind it if I feel the need to do so...

[Shade]

I have done a lot of hard facing of there years, standard steel filler will not hold up.  The correct hard facing filler makes a huge difference, I am a fan of the Stoody products and support you get from them.

[Twilight Fenrir]

This:

Turned into this: (It was swaybacked really badly, the middle of the face was about 1/2 an inch lower than the ends)

And came out like this: (Someone had cut off a huge chunk of the underside of the horn with a cutting torch at one point, which is why it's a goofy shape... I cleaned it up as best I could)

 

Also, I didn't have a milling machine All of that is hand grinding with my 4 1/2" angle grinder, and my 7"

[Shade]

Nice repair.

 

[Shade]

Checked the hardness this morning.

60 Rc on the face

30 ish on the table and horn.

[ThomasPowers]

Dusk wolf you need to round off those edges a bit more; sharp edges on an anvil are a bad thing---"Practical Blacksmithing" published in 1889, 1890 and 1891 even has a quote in it: "I am satisfied not only that the sharp edges are useless, but that they are also destructive of good work. I cannot account for their existence except as a relic of a time when the principles of forging were but little understood."  (anvils were shipped with sharp edges so the Smith could put on the edges he liked!)

I see a lot of folks wanting to either remove face to get sharp edges often taking a generation of uselife away or weld them up, many times improperly causing future problems.  It's   often people who may be excellent machinists and welders but do not have a good solid background in blacksmithing.

As for the milling of the base of an anvil to get a level face THAT IS A GREAT THING TO DO!  No diminution of the use life or getting sharp edges that need to be rounded off.  (Unfortunately I have seen several anvils where to level them they milled the Face, 2 at least where they cut all the way through the face plate in places leaving a dead flat and level USELESS anvil.) 

[Shade]

29 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

It's often people who may be excellent machinists and welders but do not have a good solid background in blacksmithing.

I often run into people needing to weld something, and all too often have no clue what the base metal is.  I did a fair amount of research in to the PW of the vintage I think this is early 1900's US made and the tool steel plate is similar to modern W-1 steel, with a wrought steel base.  Therefore the procedure I posted the link to makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for your input.

Btw, I claim to be a welder who happens to own a few machine tools.  Just starting to dabble in heat and beat.  I also have a tool addiction problem.

A little more detail over here.

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46216

 

[ThomasPowers]

Read the entire thing over there, my thoughts: The Gunther method is considered the gold standard for anvil repair.  Finally got someone pointing out that you don't want sharp corners AND that the radius depends on what YOU will be doing and how YOU like to work.  I didn't see our common reply of "if you need sharper edges for a specific project/process make a hardy tool with it/them!"  Also the warning to NOT sharpen the point of the horn and a reasoned guess on why so many anvil have had them blunted over the years.  (ram your upper leg/wedding tackle onto a sharp pointed anvil horn a couple of times moving fast from forge to working place while holding a hammer in your hand and see what tends to happen!)  Again if you need a small pointed horn make a hardy tool---a bull pin makes a good starting piece for one.

I would have not advised welding on that anvil HOWEVER it is yours and you can do whatever you like to it!  I'm not in agreement with gadget girl on leveling the feet.  Either way would be perfectly OK; use the one that's easiest for you!  Good to see you realized that only the feet need to touch the base and the center is often elevated to keep the anvil from rocking on the base.   You might want to point out over on that site that welding up sharp corners only to grind them back to a nice curve is rather a waste of time, money and effort. Weld to what you need to make the curve.   

I have in  my 35 years forging had 2 anvils repaired,  One was a battered one that I had repaired and then passed on to a new smith; the other was a 400# anvil that the maintenance crew at a copper mine had used as a welding fixture and had a beautiful smooth face---with air-arc gouges across it.  Both were repaired at "Anvil Repair Days" held by the local ABANA affiliates (1500 miles apart...) using the Gunther method. So I am not against repair when needed---it's just that many anvils don't need repair; it's just their owners don't know enough about smithing to know that!  At one Anvil Repair Day a fellow brought in an anvil that he had gotten when he was just starting out.  The face was a bit marked and the corners were rounded so he took it to a machinist who  milled the face flat and true and the edges to sharp corners---leaving the hardened face at about 1/8" thick and  no longer usable as an anvil.  So he carried it around for 20 years or so and finally took it to the ARD where a professional weldor (taught it at the local college too!) with industrial equipment spent 5 hours building and grinding it till it was a usable anvil again---a cautionary tale.

[Twilight Fenrir]

5 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Dusk wolf you need to round off those edges a bit more; sharp edges on an anvil are a bad thing---"Practical Blacksmithing" published in 1889, 1890 and 1891 even has a quote in it: "I am satisfied not only that the sharp edges are useless, but that they are also destructive of good work. I cannot account for their existence except as a relic of a time when the principles of forging were but little understood."  (anvils were shipped with sharp edges so the Smith could put on the edges he liked!)

I see a lot of folks wanting to either remove face to get sharp edges often taking a generation of uselife away or weld them up, many times improperly causing future problems.  It's   often people who may be excellent machinists and welders but do not have a good solid background in blacksmithing.

As for the milling of the base of an anvil to get a level face THAT IS A GREAT THING TO DO!  No diminution of the use life or getting sharp edges that need to be rounded off.  (Unfortunately I have seen several anvils where to level them they milled the Face, 2 at least where they cut all the way through the face plate in places leaving a dead flat and level USELESS anvil.) 

Oh, I did round off the edges before putting it into use. That wasn't /quite/ a finished picture... The anvil is big enough that I left a bit of sharp edge back towards the heel so I could use it when I needed to (Actually needed to do so today, making some specialized tongs) but otherwise it's mostly smoothed out.

To be fair, that anvil was basically a yard ornament when I got it. There was an entire edge broken away, it was horribly swaybacked, and had 1/4" deep chisel cuts into it.

The lovely thing about metal is, it's just like painting... If something goes wrong, you can always strip it down, and do it again! If this repair doesn't last forever, it can be ground down and welded with something else! Maybe by then I'll have a bigger shop and better tools. But for now, it's working great, much better than I thought it would. There is something to be said for "Good enough"

[Shade]

A short note, as I am beat, hot and really stinky!

All went well. Welded 2 layers on the face the copper block cold shunt worked
outstandingly well. The brass shunt for the pritchel hole not as well, the
welding part great the getting it out was a widdle difficult but I got it out. The
copper block I used for the edges and then machined a wedge in it for the
hardie hole. Worked better than I hoped.

Attached are pictures, I have it covered to cool slowly overnight, wrapped well in welding blankets.

[DSW]

Should you find the need later, carbon rods/blocks work well for blocking out areas you want to exclude weld from. Carbon is soft enough to drill/punch out if need be if you can't get it freed up easily and cheaper than copper most times.

[Shade]

15 minutes ago, DSW said:

Should you find the need later, carbon rods/blocks work well for blocking out areas you want to exclude weld from. Carbon is soft enough to drill/punch out if need be if you can't get it freed up easily and cheaper than copper most times.

Thanks I know, the copper was free, I have several large pieces I am very stingy with.  The brass was a piece I salvaged from something else.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

On 7/16/2016 at 10:20 AM, Shade said:

.  I did a fair amount of research in to the PW of the vintage I think this is early 1900's US made and the tool steel plate is similar to modern W-1 steel, with a wrought steel base. 

 

Peter Wrights were made in England and they have wrought iron bases, not steel. 

[Shade]

Quick update:

Welding went well, put 2 layers down, and machined of about half of it, that was the plan.  That is the as milled finish, I used a Sandvik Coromill 245 with a fresh set of corners for the finish pass.

I was getting 55-60 Rc on surface before welding and now have 50-55 Rc on the face.  I am happy with that.  I knew I would loose some hardness.  I lost less than I was expecting to loose.

Still have a lot of finish grinding to get the edges radiused proper and a little die grinding on the hardie hole.

I was going to put a 1/4" radius about 4" long behind the table and a 1/8" radius around the rest of the face of the anvil, and clean up the table and horn.  Wire brush the reminder of the anvil.

 

Question, I see all these nice pretty black anvils, what to you all use to get that color in them?

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Wire brush it, and linseed oil.

I just let mine get a natural patina since they sit outside all year.

[Shade]

2 minutes ago, BIGGUNDOCTOR said:

Wire brush it, and linseed oil.

I just let mine get a natural patina since they sit outside all year.

Thank you, I have both in stock!  Mine will also reside outside.

 

[the iron dwarf]

age is good for a patina, 100 years is a start

[ThomasPowers]

Shoot I can leave an anvil outside all year and not have it even rust out here!  I wanted to patinate a rasptlesnake and had to leave it under the hose bib drip for it to do any rusting.  My landlords handyman told me it sure woke him up when he went to turn on the hose the first time... (according to a local weather station we've had .55 inches of precipitation since Jan 1 2016---total)

[the iron dwarf]

.55 inches of precipitation

about an average days rain here

have you got a picture of one of your rasptlesnakes Thomas, have heard of them but never seen one

 

[Shade]

12 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

Shoot I can leave an anvil outside all year and not have it even rust out here!  I wanted to patinate a rasptlesnake and had to leave it under the hose bib drip for it to do any rusting.  My landlords handyman told me it sure woke him up when he went to turn on the hose the first time... (according to a local weather station we've had .55 inches of precipitation since Jan 1 2016---total)

We averaged 0.55 or more by the hour yesterday...

[ThomasPowers]

And I remember back in Ohio when we got 6" in about an hour once.   What we do get down here besides the heat and blazing sun is wind, 55 mph gusts are pretty common and during the spring I've seen sustained 80 MPH winds at times.

[Frosty]

I know there is popular disdain for it but paint is the traditional method of coloring equipment and protecting it from weather.

I used a version of the finish found in "The Art Of Blacksmithing" by Alex Bealer. He recommended a mixture of bees wax, turpentine and soot. I used paraffin instead and it turned everything a nice flat black. Were I to do this now I'd use Trewax and add soot without thinning it with turps.

The last time I messed with it I just wiped my anvil down with Trewax while it was good and warm, it's lasted a good 15 years now. I didn't bother to brush the rust off so it's preserved too.

Frosty The Lucky.