Mikey98118 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 Yes, that is it exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 BTW, when we emailed back and forth I did't know that this thread has come back; since it has I look forward to working with you to finish your burner, and hope you will continue to provide photos, to provide the other folks with a visual trail to follow. So, first thing to bring up for them, is that this is the only propane torch model that can use this kind of gas jet; none of the others will provide enough room to allow this jet to slide pass the threaded section, and therefore must use MIG contact tips, and that means that a capillary tube will have to be silver brazed inside the tip, because they don't come in tips with small enough orifice sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 Much obliged, Mikey. I will follow up here when I make some more progress or have questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 8, 2016 Author Share Posted November 8, 2016 correction: I mean to say that the approximately 1/2" of threaded end then in the mixing tube remains, while all the rest of that part gets cut away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 You want to push the threaded end of the old torch head into the mixing tube until it just passes by the first shoulder; that is the first indented section showing on the left side of the tube in the photo above. If you place the cut between the shoulder and the air holes, there should be just enough excess material left sticking out of the threaded tube section to gently hand file it back even with that end of the stainless steel mixing tube, hopefully cleaning minor burrs out of the thread's end; otherwise, use a knife edge as a scrapping tool. You want that fine thread absolutely burr free, before using the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 9, 2016 Author Share Posted November 9, 2016 "A 3/8” hex bolt for a layout aid. You should take the the mixing tube with you when choosing the bolt, to get the closest match to it." The bolt's head is six sided. You want to make three air openings, but they aren't limited to the width of the heads six faces. You can mark every other point to mark three different spots for one side of each opening. and then turn the bolt as much as you like to mark the other sides of the three openings Use a pen or marking pencil (like the one in your photo) to mark all six points; you can move them as many times as you like, and then scribe the linear lines of the proposed air openings. You also have that caliper to double check that the points are equally spaced before inscribing them. The bolt needs to fit snugly into the mixing tube, but could be as small as 5/16" and still be made to serve by enlarging its shaft with tape. You just don't want it to turn too easily. Again, when you lay out the linear lines, using a pen or pencil before using the scriber, and the small angle. And equally important is that this method doesn't promote collective errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 10, 2016 Author Share Posted November 10, 2016 "Are the ribs supposed to be 3/16" wide?" Try not to allow them to end up less than 3/16" wide; remember that you have total control over that by turning the bolt head to make it so, before marking out the second set of linear lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Next step, reduce size of mixing tube to fit flare spacer and choke sleeve. Follow that by drill and tap for the thumbscrew, then layout the air slots and cut. More to come as I progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share Posted November 11, 2016 I finally realized that, because tubing is not round, the choke sleeve can be used without a thumbscrew and slot, by slitting the tube from front to back, cleaning up the cut, and using spring pressure to allow it to be run up and down, and then rotated to stick it in position where desired. If a guy messes that up, he can always install the slot and thumbscrew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted November 11, 2016 Share Posted November 11, 2016 Interesting. How thin of a cut are you doing to allow the sleeve to clamp this way, about the thickness of a hacksaw blade or cut off wheel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 As thin as you can manage. It is best to make the cut using a cutoff disk in a rotary too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share Posted November 13, 2016 The lay out bolt ([art number ten) isn't three-eighths-inch; that was a typo; it is one-half-inch. (10) A 1/2” hex bolt for a layout aid. You should take the mixing tube with you when choosing the bolt, to get the closest match to it. If you can’t find a convenient fit in this bolt, try for a better one in a metric bolt. The bolt needs to fit snugly into the mixing tube, but could be as small as 5/16" and still be made to serve by enlarging its shaft with tape. You just don't want it to turn too easily. This is the easiest method to lay out the cut lines; equally important is that this method doesn't promote collective errors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 HI Mikey, I have a few questions regarding the build of this burner. I did a test burn yesterday with the torch not press fit into the doubler, but with the luer lock needle just laying inside the mixing tube with the setback at about 1/4 from the leading edge of the air slots. I installed a cork through the luer lock needle to simulate a seal for the doubler. The fist thing I noticed is, unless I'm misunderstanding the directions, if installed with the doubler connecting the mixing tube and the torch, the luer lock would be way forward of the air slots of the mixing tube. In fact, measuring 1/4" back from the leading edge would entirely cut off the needle and part of the taper before the needle. The only way I could get it to run was having the needle down into the mixing tube forward of the slots. When I did the layout, I made the first line at 9/16 and the second one at 1 9/16. What am I missing here? I noticed yesterday that you specified 5/8 OD and .495" ID for the mixing tube. Above that you wrote "builiding the 3/8" mixing tube and it's flame nozzle". Upon doing further research, I noticed that you had written in a different post that the best orifice size for a 1/2 burner is .028" while for these micro burner plans you suggest using .019-.022. I think you might of crossed plans with the 3/8 and 1/2 burner?? This may be confirmed by the fact that the 3/8" bolt was a typo?? At this point, I am thinking I need to buy different needles but am unsure how to proceed. Please advise! Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted December 1, 2016 Share Posted December 1, 2016 Another thing I noticed, going back to the 3/8" burner notes previously posted, is that the mixing tube length is 8", whereas the micro burner dimensions above is 1/2 ID and 6" length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 1, 2016 Author Share Posted December 1, 2016 Yup, that's a sure enough typo. The part is only 6" long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 Sorry EDE, For some reason I missed most of your post until just this morning. First off, as for the 3/8" versus 5/8" mix up: 3/8" is the burner size; not its O.D. Pipe sizes where set clear back in the eighteen hundreds when they were made of iron, brass, or copper. Back them they were a lot thicker then they need to be now, to resist the same water pressures, which even cheap steel can handle today. They also needed to be all one size in order for one manufacturer's pipe to be threaded to another manufacture's fitting, so the sizes for pipe was agreed upon, as "nominal" pipe sizes, by outside diameter. So, today a Nominally 3/8" pipe will have a .675 outside diameter. Thank you for letting me see what it's like from your end, when I'm not perfectly clear; ugly and bewildering; that's what it is!!! Also, since I was recommending stainless steel tubing, which may or may not be the sames dimensions as pipe, the outer diameter was only .625", which happens to be exactly 5/8", but would be a little bewidering if you looked things up on a pipe chart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 "I noticed yesterday that you specified Above that you wrote "building the 3/8" mixing tube and it's flame nozzle". Upon doing further research, I noticed that you had written in a different post that the best orifice size for a 1/2 burner is .028" while for these micro burner plans you suggest using .019-.022. " 5/8 OD and .495" ID for the mixing tube is going to have an outside diameter of .625"; that where you go looking for steel tube that has an inside diameter of .495", which is the closest diameter to I have found to matching up with the section of threaded brass tube that must be cut off of the old torch's flame nozzle. The best orifice diameter for the the gas jet on a 1/2" burner (nominal pipe size) is .028", which you can't get from a MIG tip, but you can get from other sources, like needle tips. And, the best orifice diameter for the the gas jet on a 3/8" burner (nominal pipe size) is between .019" and .022 ". Remember what I offered. If I messed up where to cut in the air holes, send me the mixing tube parts, with Luer lock adapter and needle (be sure to include the threaded brass part). I will fix them from parts I have on hand, and send them back in a couple of days. Michael Porter 5101 S. Mead St., Seattle, WA 98118 All you guys who I'm not dealing with; this offer does not include you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ede Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 No worries at all! I'm just tickled and appreciative your helping me through with this. Regarding the pipe size, I see how this can get confusing, just like nominal lumber sizes. I can see how the early days of pipe burner builds would be all so easy to call out the pipe as 3/8", even when using tubing. 3/8 nominal pipe vs 5/8 tubing, this hurts my brain. Instead of protesting anymore, I'm just gonna go with it. For anyone else that is following this, here's part of a pipe size chart for reference: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 That's structural pipe not plumbing pipe. Most folk build burners with plumbing parts. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Aw Frosty, that's schedule pipe ie. High pressure not structural tube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 Overjoyed to see you back, ianinsa; it does not happen anywhere near enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 I have made an error in the position of the air openings; they don't begin at 1/2" from the mixing tube's rear edge; that is the correct position for MIG tip gas jets. The correct point is 1-1/4" in from the tube's rear edge with Luer lock needles in Luer lock adapters. This also means that the total length of one of these burners should be 8" when Luer lock gas jets are used in these burners and 6" when the capillary tube is mounted in MIG contact tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 On 12/7/2016 at 7:26 AM, ianinsa said: Aw Frosty, that's schedule pipe ie. High pressure not structural tube That's what the chart is referring to yes bu we aren't making burners from structural pipe. Well, most of us aren't that is. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Aw Frosty, isn't it in the nature of most blacksmiths to '"over-engineer " ? A shed 40 burnet should last a week ot two longer. Mikey this thread has been quite interesting, thanks for all the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 6 hours ago, ianinsa said: Aw Frosty, isn't it in the nature of most blacksmiths to '"over-engineer " ? A shed 40 burnet should last a week ot two longer. Mikey this thread has been quite interesting, thanks for all the effort. True words Ian. I'd given a lot of thought to making a burner with square or rectangular tubing but since the multi-port, ribbon burner turned out to work so well I've shelved the idea. I was looking to make a fan shaped flame but the ribbon makes a fan shaped flame seem pretty piddly poor. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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