TheMule Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 So, I'm building a gas forge, very small for now because I'm not planning anything larger than a pocket knife. I'm planning to use firebrick for the forge due to being cheaper than refractory cement, and a single propane burner, probably just the simple kind of gas torch you can pick up at the hardware store. The questions I have for you guys are, do I need a shell for the firebrick? Is firebrick a good material to insulate a forge this size and capacity? Will my plan for a cheap gas burner work well enough to heat steel? And finally, what would be the best way to position the burner to be the most efficient? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Soft brick I hope, might I suggest looking at ceramic blanket insulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 suggest searching on "bean can forge" and "micro forge" "one firebrick forge" So far the answer to most of your questions is: Yes, No, Maybe depending on information you didn't include like: hard vs soft firebrick; how the burner is positioned depends on how you build the forge; how hot do you need it? (forge welding is a stretch goal!) but again it depends on how you build the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 54 minutes ago, Charles R. Stevens said: Soft brick I hope, might I suggest looking at ceramic blanket insulation. Wold I have to cover the ceramic blanket with something or can it take direct heat? Also I'm having a hard time finding soft fire brick, any idea where to look? 41 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: suggest searching on "bean can forge" and "micro forge" "one firebrick forge" So far the answer to most of your questions is: Yes, No, Maybe depending on information you didn't include like: hard vs soft firebrick; how the burner is positioned depends on how you build the forge; how hot do you need it? (forge welding is a stretch goal!) but again it depends on how you build the forge. I'm really not ready for forge welding yet, largely due to a lack of knowledge and experience in it but also due to a lack of projects requiring it. I'm also not planning on anything large so I don't think I need a lot of heat. I'm afraid I'm pretty short on ideas. What I really need is to meet up with some local smiths but I don't know where to start looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Boiler service technicians or refractory supply houses or contact Wane Cole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 Wane cole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Tho it's not recommended, ceramic blanket is ok for direct exposure. Hard brick and non insulating refractory cements are heat sinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 Just now, Charles R. Stevens said: Tho it's not recommended, ceramic blanket is ok for direct exposure. Hard brick and non insulating refractory cements are heat sinks I see. Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 Welcome aboard Mule glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header you'll have a chance of meeting up with Iforge members in your area. If you won't tell people where you are how do you expect to meet up? There is a pretty extensive gas forge section here on Iforge, nothing you've asked hasn't been answered any times over. A bean can forge run off a Bernzomatic soldering torch can be welded in IF you have the procedure right. 2 brick forges with a 1/2" T burner will melt steel if you aren't keeping an eye on it. That's 2 soft fire brick with about a 1 1/2" hole bored lengthwise in the contact surface of both bricks and a 5/8" hole drilled in the side about half way down. It's fast easy and WICKED HOT. The problem is how fast soft fire brick breaks up from the thermal cycling, it doesn't like expanding and contracting that much that fast so it breaks up. If money is a factor you have to use an insulating refractory or buying propane will eat you alive. Well your bank account. You can make at least two bean can forges with 1sq./ ft of Kaowool. A kiln wash is a high temp protective coating you apply to the fire contact surface of the forge. It hardens the ceramic blanket so pokes and scrapes don't just tear it up. It also makes it more resistant to the propane flame which are pretty chemically active and eat most normal things up, propane is like that you know. If you use an IR reflective kiln wash it helps reflect the heat wanting to conduct through the walls back into the forge where you want it. Lastly kiln washes are resistant to welding fluxes. A sprinkle of borax at welding temperature will dissolve Kaowool or soft fire brick like hot water eats cotton candy. It may sound overwhelming but it's not, just don't get confused by trying to follow more than ONE set of plans and do NOT watch the how to build a forge Youtube videos they'll have you chasing your tail in no time. Honest I'm NOT joking forget Youtube, and FB. Until you have a working knowledge of blacksmithing you won't be able to sift the good info from the junk. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 That's a fantastic amount of stuff I didn't know, and I thank you for it. That gives me more than enough foundation to start building on. This is the first time I've gotten into a forum for blacksmithing and I have to admit, I wasn't expecting as much as I've gotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 I'm happy to help. What I posted just now are just headers to the info you need to make these things and do it right. Pick through and you'll find plenty of good search terms to use in the Gas Forge and Burner sections. Google or Yahoo work better than the search engine Iforge is stuck with so search with Google or whatever and include Iforge Iron in the search terms, it'll get you where you want to go much faster. Oh and pull up a comfy chair and pack a beverage there's a LOT of reading and it's kind of addictive. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 If you're looking for a good deal on a small forge--on the cheap--consider buying a Devil Forge on eBay; then spending a small fraction of the work and money to set it up with an American gas hose and regulator. That is enough to get it running. Then, learn all you need to find out from others here 9who have gone this rout) on how to finish it up from a workable beginning to a fine ending, without running out of patience or money. Mikey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 I can't seem to find a devil forge on ebay. Do you have a general description so I know what I'm looking for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I searched "Propane Forge" on ebay and it was the first choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Ok, so I realize this isn't quite on topic but, for lack of a better place to put this, what is the major difference between cast iron and steel anvils? Is cast iron just more fragile? Should cast iron anvils generally be avoided? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 With the exception of cast anvils with tool steel tops and maluable iron anvils one should avoid them like the pleage. Not only are they brittle and prone to breaking, they are also "dead", a dead anvil will not move steal as easily as an anvil with rebound. Beater to spend your $50 on a big drop at the scrap yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Back when I was fairly new in the craft and I only owned 1 anvil I had the misfortune to have it stolen just a day or two before I was to do a day long demo at a Museum. So I ran out to get an anvil *fast* and the only one I could find was cast iron. I paid real anvil prices for it too. Went to the demo and found that the anvil's face was denting *under* cherry red coil spring when I was hammering on it. Like trying to forge on damp clay! I never used it again; money tossed away. I also refusde to sell it on to anyone wanting to smith and finally years and moves later sold it to a fellow as a decoration at a loss. Seen someone selling a cast iron anvil locally recently for US$2 a pound; pity as a MUCH BETTER anvil could be bought at the local scrapyard for 20 cents a pound for a hunk of STEEL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 Guys, as always, I appreciate your insightand candor. I thought about checking a scrap yard but I can't seem to find one that will sell to me, they recycle only. Ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Try a heavy duty truck or equipment repair shop for heavy parts like: broken axle, shaft or worn fork tine, etc. If you know someone at a rail road shop who can slip something out you'll find even heavier. Most scrap yards seem to be selling under contract and their insurance won't let folk in the yard at all so it's getting really hard to find one that will sell to the public. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Machine shops, old sledge hammer heads ect. Even one of those draw are with three balls, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Mule; my local scrapyard likes to sell to folks, just go about 4 miles down the frontage road and turn right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 1 hour ago, ThomasPowers said: Mule; my local scrapyard likes to sell to folks, just go about 4 miles down the frontage road and turn right! What town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 *exactly* It's about 6 miles north of my shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMule Posted May 23, 2016 Author Share Posted May 23, 2016 So something strange happened just now. I found an anvil for sale, and made an offer. The guy came back with "minimum price is 425, anvil cost 400 30 years ago". Am I crazy or is that math a little off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 In what condition is it? If it has decent rebound and isn't beat to pieces and you don't have it your possession right now. Yes you're crazy. If you're not sure of it's condition stop by Thomas's on your way back he'll check it out for you. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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