skyforgemetalworks Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 I have been using h13 to make some slitting chisels and punches. I know that I'm supposed to forge it at a yellow heat, but the past couple of times it has cracked and broken off right behind the yellow. I am only working with 1/2" round. Also, I was wondering if anyone has made center punches out of it. I would like to know how to make sure it doesn't break off while forging and all of that stuff. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Have you looked at the minimum and maximum forging temps for H13? 1950-1650 is the start and stop temps for forging. If you are staying in that range you shouldn't have issues with heat checking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Furrer Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 Well.... Are you sure it is H13? If it was a tool then was that tool heat treated and are you heating quickly? Maybe the tool is breaking due to stress on the heat treated area. If you are induction heating the part then there may need to be more a pre-heat prior o bringing it up to forging temp...this may be the issue in a gas or coal forge as well.. they a slower heat to forging temp...maybe being that heat back a bit into the unworked portion. Many issues can arise from forging tool steel if one's practice is off a bit. I see many treat tools steps and higher alloy steels like mild steel where they do not pay attention to temp and working heats and then wonder why things go amiss. I recall forging M2 early in my career and had a horrible time...never did get to under control and have not touched it in 20 years. Forged some 4340 a few years ago and heated it too fast (no preheat) and the parts all cracked in the quench. Nice spiderweb issues from the center to the corners. Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 my first time using a gas forge, placed a partly finish 5160 cleaver in the forge and TINK , it cracked from no preheat, I had to start over from the beginning. H13 likes to be worked slow and easy. do not rush things. Remember while the part you are forging at temperature, the areas nearby need some heat too prevent impact shocks from causing problems there. most tool steels have a "danger zone" of temperatures that are bad for impacts. Also remember if it gets too cold it hardens on you , Surprise ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyforgemetalworks Posted March 20, 2016 Author Share Posted March 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Richard Furrer said: Well.... Are you sure it is H13? If it was a tool then was that tool heat treated and are you heating quickly? Maybe the tool is breaking due to stress on the heat treated area. If you are induction heating the part then there may need to be more a pre-heat prior o bringing it up to forging temp...this may be the issue in a gas or coal forge as well.. they a slower heat to forging temp...maybe being that heat back a bit into the unworked portion. Many issues can arise from forging tool steel if one's practice is off a bit. I see many treat tools steps and higher alloy steels like mild steel where they do not pay attention to temp and working heats and then wonder why things go amiss. I recall forging M2 early in my career and had a horrible time...never did get to under control and have not touched it in 20 years. Forged some 4340 a few years ago and heated it too fast (no preheat) and the parts all cracked in the quench. Nice spiderweb issues from the center to the corners. Ric I have been wondering if it is H13 ever since I had it delivered. I ordered it from my steel supplier. It wasn't a previous tool or scrap. I ordered two pieces of stock. I also have had some deformation after I have went through heat treating and then used it. I forge it and once I've got the desired shape for my tool, I heat it up to yellow and let it air quench in my vise. My file will still bite it at that point and then I temper it to a dull red in my shadow and quench in water. Sometimes it comes out tough and the file gives me a glass like resistance. However, with my slitting chisel, I made a shallow point on it and the point deformed. 5 hours ago, Crazy Ivan said: Have you looked at the minimum and maximum forging temps for H13? 1950-1650 is the start and stop temps for forging. If you are staying in that range you shouldn't have issues with heat checking. I basically just heat it slowly in my coal forge and forge it. If my tip is yellow and I forge, then it heat checks behind my forging area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted March 20, 2016 Share Posted March 20, 2016 2 hours ago, skyforgemetalworks said: I have been wondering if it is H13 ever since I had it delivered. I ordered it from my steel supplier. It wasn't a previous tool or scrap. I ordered two pieces of stock. I also have had some deformation after I have went through heat treating and then used it. I forge it and once I've got the desired shape for my tool, I heat it up to yellow and let it air quench in my vise. My file will still bite it at that point and then I temper it to a dull red in my shadow and quench in water. Sometimes it comes out tough and the file gives me a glass like resistance. However, with my slitting chisel, I made a shallow point on it and the point deformed. I basically just heat it slowly in my coal forge and forge it. If my tip is yellow and I forge, then it heat checks behind my forging area. When I make drifts and top tools and dies for struck tools or the power hammer using h13 I usually heat it slowly in the gas forge or set it on top of my coal fire until it has an even preheat, then forge the tool while the ENTIRE area and surrounding area to be forged is within the forging temps I noted earlier. I've yet to have any trouble with it other than how it doesn't like to move under the hammer. After forging I let it cool down in the forge as it cools. Then I grind, bring back up to heat and let it sit in STILL air. Then I use it. This is what works for what I commonly make. Ive had no problems to date. Depending on the materials area, things change. Thinner sections and thicker sections require slighly different treatment. Look up the heat treaters guide app. It's free and has all the info you may want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithatheart Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 h13 has to be worked where with full heat it all has to be the same other wise like all metals it will crack after time of heating and cooling cycles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Is the break at the point of the contact with the vice I think putting it in the vice during heat treatment is not helping you. I normally heat treat my H13 letting air cool from 1850f by setting on a non heatconductive surface with the business end in air then in tempering try to bring the struck end up to near 1500 and get the working end near 800f this should make the tool not so hard on the struck end and yet hard on the working end. I don't water quench during heat treatment of H13. I have used water to cool during use of these tools but I think the practice is not a good idea, and likely damages the tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metalmangeler Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 As observant as I am I just noticed this was from back in March, no doubt this is all from so long ago the OP probably is no longer looking this thread over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 But everyone else is...so thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Remember, these threads aren't just for answering the OP; they're a resource for future researchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Only for those smart enough to look, sadly too many wont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 What though the sea with waves continuall Doe eate the earth, it is no more at all ; Ne is the earth the lesse, or loseth ought : For whatsoever from one place doth fall Is with the tyde unto another brought : For there is nothing lost, that may be found if sought. ― Edmund Spenser, The Faerie Queene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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