ausfire Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 My forge at work has served us well for several years, but it's about time it received some attention. A bit of background. It is situated in a historic village setting so we built it pretty much the way the old miners of the area built their forges to sharpen drill steels etc in the mines. It is basically a square of rock, filled with rubble and a top layer of crushed ant bed (including ants). A pipe passes through the rock edging and connects to a hand crank fan. Charcoal fuel. After several years, the pipe has been gradually eaten away and needs replacement. I am thinking of replacing it by adding one of those heavy iron axle hubs from an old wagon. We have lots of them in different sizes. The one lying in the ash in the picture has about a 1'' opening and the steel is about 3/8" thick. I'm hoping the thicker steel will last longer. I am also going to lift the wall a little with more rock, leaving a channel on the anvil side to allow longer stock to rest at a good depth. Any suggestions would be welcome. I've attached a couple of pics to get an idea of the current set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 Greetings Aus, From your picture the blower tube diameter has been stepped down at least twice before the tube .. I would consider a complete re-do . Your blower is far from a comfortable distance to the front of the forge and you must take a few steps and must be cumbersome to work with. I would consider positioning the blower than replumb to your forge . The pluming would end up square but should work just fine. Hope this helps. Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick O Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 how are you planning on connecting the two pieces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 10 hours ago, Nick O said: how are you planning on connecting the two pieces Not sure Nick. I think the heavy piece will almost slip over the top of the existing pipe. I have a few pieces to select the right width from. I intended just to weld it on and then mortar it into the edge of the forge. Jim: The blower is closer to the forge than it looks in those photos. I can turn the blower with my right hand, holding steel in the forge with my left comfortably. Then one step across to the anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 I've used solid tue side blasts like this for years. That should work just fine. If I were you though I'd collect a few of them together and pile them up near the forge, so you know they're going to be replacement tue's at some point. I'd also make it so you can replace one easily when the time comes. Perhaps tack weld a pipe inside to act as a sleeve or some threaded pipe so you just have to unscrew it and change it over. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 Hi Andy, Thanks for that advice. I'm encouraged by your words. We have quite a few of these lying around so the easy replacement idea sounds good. I was sort of hoping they would last a bit longer than the thin pipe which currently extends into the fire. I see one of your locations is Wirral. I have a friend who lives on the Wirral and we visited there a few years back. Drove under the Mersey and took the ferry across too. Found a blacksmith in Shropshire to have a talk with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 HI Austere, Small world really. I've lived on the Wirral for a few years now. I'm a big fan of future proofing kit when I can. If you can slip it over the existing pipe and secure in place with a grub screw for example then future changes would be a doddle. - Just unscrew the old on, drill and tap a new tube, slip it on and tighten it up. Done. That pipe should work pretty well, it won't last forever but it will last a good while. The pipe I used was only 3mm thick and would last a while. I can't recall how long exactly though tbh. It's been a while. All the best Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy seale Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 maybe just find a piece of bull wall pipe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted January 27, 2016 Author Share Posted January 27, 2016 6 hours ago, jimmy seale said: maybe just find a piece of bull wall pipe? I don't know what that is, but I imagine it is a heavy gauge steam pipe or something. Yes, that's an option, but the delivery pipe I have now works fine - it's just that I would like a more robust end on it where it's in contact with the fire. The axle hub should do that. (I hope.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 The axle hub will be fine I should think. Is fabricating a water cooled tue out of the question? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 By ant mound do you mean, white ants (termites)? forming up a bit of clay and forming a bit of a wall around the tuyere so it is flush with the clay will make it live longer. As to water cooled, I have seen them with remote boshes, literally a barrel on a stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Yes, Charles, there are termite mounds everywhere around us and the old timers used them extensively. We wanted the forge to look a bit like the old miners' forges around here and they used ant bed all the time. It was also packed down to make floors in the bark humpies and even as a tennis court surface. Folks reckoned the ants would help glue it all together. Andy, we have a few of those water cooled tuyere things lying around, but it's always seemed like too much trouble to fit them up. I guess they were used in more industrial settings than ours. Is this the kind of thing you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadus Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 you mean you have authentic water cooled tuyeres laying around and they aren't in your forge yet?! I wish we had those kickin around in the states... maybe build a bigger forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 you even have a barrel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 Yes, but I don't know how they are set up. How does the water circulate? Do you need a pump of some kind or does it move by convection. Do you need a gravity tank? I have lots of this stuff but don't have the knowledge to go with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadus Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I'm not sure if i can post the picture due to it being under copyright, but here is a link to it. http://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?keywords=Ref_No_increment;EQUALS;s10287&pos=1&action=zoom&id=13361 this is an amazing picture in an anvil making shop, but behind the smiths on top of the forge is a barrel for the tuyere, there doesnt seem to be any pump. I've wondered long and hard about how it works, but obviously it does. btw this photo is also in Richard Postmans book mousehole forge, he says this photo was taken inside mousehole forge but this source says otherwise. maybe as the water boils the steam escapes up the pipe leading into the top of the barrel, water flowing down the lower pipe to refill the tuyere at the same time? speculating that there is also a hole in the top of the barrel? sorry if this is nonsense, I'm not a steam engineer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRS Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 It works like a coffee machine, water cant get over 100°C, then it becomes steam and pushes more water trough the rising tube to the top of the tank. from the bottom of the tank comes fresh cold water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 Broadus, thanks for the pic. Looks simple enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 The water cooled tue's in the UK are open and have the tank attached but those look like they work very much like one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pop_pop_boat water gets hot- expands blows out the steam which creates a vacuum and sucks in cold water. It might make a few noises while it's running. There's only one way to find out I guess. I'd give it a go just to see if it works. All the best Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 Thanks Andy. First reply disappeared. Grrr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 get over yerself......just make a bottom blast, side draft, forge like us Yanks...plenty of pics in the Gallery for you..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everything Mac Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 No worries, please do let us know if you do try one out. I for one would be very interested to see if it works and what it runs like. I'd expect there to be a pop pop noise like on those little boats. You never know - might inspire some guys in the USA to build a proper forge Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottles Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I've seen the chain smiths at the Black country museum using this set up. Didn't hear any noises. I'd either have a cistern to automatically fill the tank with a indicator of water depth. In case the cistern stops working. Or refill the bucket at least twice a day to start. These look simpler to fabricate but harder to install then tue and boshe sets. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Same Príncipe as a gravity syphon hotwater set up. As long as the bottom of the tank is no lower than the tuyere the heated water rises and the cooler water sinks. Just run one pipe from the bottom of the tank and the other to the top, in a level system such as a heating system two check Valves would be used, say with a heat exchanger in a coal stove and a radiator. Those make tap-tap noises. As the valves open and close with the surge of pressure. Not an issue with gravity syphon system. Think boiler in the basement and radiator upstairs. Comon set up in low tech solar water heaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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