Tabasco Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Not talking about the problems ladies have with their hair but my problem when I am forging fine points on mild steel. Seems I cannot keep them from fraying when I get down to the very point. Is thie the nature of the mild steel or something else I am missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 Are you using mild steel or A36? Are you forging in a coal fire or charcoal or propane or NG or induction or oil fired or...? How many heats do you generally use? (often a factor of the ambient; so where you at?) What size hammer do you use? The devil is in the details...currently the question is like "my truck is running rough---what's wrong?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 The three reasons I can think of are:- you are working it too cold you are not keeping it square enough in cross section and proportion but letting it go lozenge and then having to correct it which creates a severe shearing effect you are not starting off with a steep enough angle so the centre of the point is forming a tube. any of these individually or in combination will cause it. If you are unable to analyse and adjust the situation from the above or looking at YouTube the quickest/best way is to find a smith and get him to watch you and see what you are doing wrong. Go to a local forge-in event. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted November 18, 2015 Share Posted November 18, 2015 As Alan points out, there could be several reasons. I guess we've all suffered from split ends at some time - for me it is usually a result of carelessness or inattention and the square taper becomes more like a rhombus in cross section. Fixing by hitting on the quarter can cause the ends to split. (I notice you specified mild steel. I have given up trying to taper wrought iron - splits every time, whatever the heat. Pity, as I have loads of the stuff. Unusable!) Anyway, if you examine your technique a little (or get someone to watch you), you'll solve the problem with the ms points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabasco Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 I appreciate everyone's input. I fire with coal and get my square stock from friends at a local woodchipping operation. They call it mild because it is softer than the key stock they use, so I call it mild. I am very new to this and I don't understand all of your terminology. I just round my stock as I draw it out and go to a point Does the frequency of quenching change when dealing with small points? There are very few forge events in my area so I am limited there. Just learning like I learned to weld, burn rods. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedefiddle Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Good Morning, As Alan said, "you are not starting off with a steep enough angle so the centre of the point is forming a tube." The secret is, you MUST forge a short taper (approx 1/2-3/4" long), before you start drawing the taper. This allows the surface of the square to grow longer than the center, thus not allowing the "Hollow Point" to happen. It is subtle, but it is important!! Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 1 hour ago, Tabasco said: snip... I just round my stock as I draw it out and go to a point Does the frequency of quenching change when dealing with small points? snip... As stated above, Start by creating a blunt point then draw it out. You have much more control if you always draw down in a square section. Then take the corners off to make an octagon taper, then take the corners off to make a 16 and so on to round. If you are trying to make a round taper from the get go, you are asking for trouble....and split ends! Why are are you quenching it at all, let alone frequently? Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabasco Posted November 19, 2015 Author Share Posted November 19, 2015 Okay, I follow what you are saying now. Blunt is better as to not make the hollow point that leads to splits. And I am not quenching but was wondering if I should while trying to make such small rounds. Just thinking out loud what I might be doing wrong Thanks for getting down on my level so I can understand, this is a big help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The only reason to quench would be if you could not isolate the heat to just affect the body of the taper and needed to quench the thinner tip halfway through the heat in order to prevent it from overheating/burning. You will already have found that the thin tip does get hot quicker in the fire than the thicker section. Quenching the tip will just hold it back so that the thicker section can catch up. The aim is to have all the metal you wish to work at the same temperature. In order to train your eye, you might try just leaving a bit of steel in the fire and heat it until it becomes a sparkler and burns. Do it once or twice...then try and gauge the colour just before that happens, so you can avoid it. The other thing that can contribute to split ends is the method you used to cut the bar. If it is part hardy/chisel cut and broken off, the raggedy end should either be cleaned up with file or grinder or the first heat should be at welding temperature to consolidate the end. Any basic blacksmith book should go through these points. Do a search for the RIB / COSIRA blacksmithing instruction books, beautiful black and white photographs and freely downloadable in .pdf form from the Hereford college web site. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 Just to add that It is not impossible to forge a round taper directly, but your spatial awareness has to work overtime to consider the 360 degrees of the form for volume consistency. It is so much easier to see a regular taper if you only have the two faces at right angles to one another of a square section. Master the square/octagon/round system first. Keep the cross section as close to square in proportion as you can by giving the workpiece a quarter turn every pass or even every blow when you get slick. If it becomes too rectangular, (thin in one dimension) it is difficult to get back to square without folding and creating cracks. Every time you turn it 90degrees you can see where the taper is too fat or too thin, and the next time you turn you can adjust your blows to correct the form. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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